Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,050 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Here in Virginia, like many other states, you are not allowed to use deadly force to protect property. If you are from a state where you can, great.

So 2-3 gentlemen are emptying out your shed.

What would you do?

Just a note. If your answer is release the hounds, they are considered property in Virginia and elsewhere. So if they get out there and the BGs start shooting, stabbing and stomping them to death, you may still not use deadly force to protect them.

-Scott-
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Grab a long gun, actually make that two long guns, one of them preferably something scoped so you can keep a better eye on them, call the fuzz, and if so equipped follow them through your glass.

Then if they try to take off, shoot out their tires.

Actually I'm 80% joking there, depending on the situation. I'd hate to make those guys desperate; they might come after me or go after my neighbor, and I'd hate to fire two rifle shots in a built up area.

Yeah it sucks you basically have to let those guys go so that they can get away and do this to someone else, but until we kill all the lawyers you're better off having your lawn mower stolen than you are paying the legal fees for the charges you'd incur actually trying to stop those guys.

Personally that chafes me but that's how it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
I am not sure how it would fly around here, but I have entertained the thought of waiting till they were away from their vehicle and then start popping tires.
They can still drive it away, but they are not going to get very far very fast.

The big drawback of this would be if the BGs said they were in or near the vehicle at the time. A bunch of stuff could go wrong, but it is still entertaining none the less.

In a more realistic response, I would probably take my carry gun and the spare .45 with me out to the car. They way my house is you can't see my front door or driveway from my "shed" (old barn with a concrete floor and aluminum siding LOL) If I can make it to one of the vehicles, without being seen, these guys are in for a nasty surprise. There is only one road to and from my barn, so I will know when they leave. I will be on the phone with 911. If they leave before the cops get there, I will try to follow them from a distance and see where they go.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,591 Posts
Fog Them

Fog them with bear spray.
You know...from that big can of it that you had stored in your shed...that they must have accidentally "set off" and fogged themselves with...while they were busy stealing your stuff.
I suggest "Guard Alaska" ~ It does not rinse off. :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
Its gettings pretty bad in some states like CA where you dare not harm the person wondering around your house eating your food and walking out with the TV. It would be a real worry with more than one jerk in the house testing your response to his being an idiot. People are not up to arming themselves, it stems in some cases if they belong to a certain political party, group or religion. The police will tend to get these bad guys after awhile but it does scare the people the bad guys come in contact with.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
693 Posts
If we're the good guys, do we really want to start shooting and taking life for property?

Granted, I love my bike--which is insured and one of a million bikes just like it.

If your answer is "yes, shoot the bastard," then where is the line? Do we start splattering brains for the theft of a garden gnome?

I can see the wisdom in car-jackings, because the loss of life has always been great. Surrendering your car keys has never guarranteed your safety. But for 'stuff in a shed,' yikes, they can have the rake, the chain-saw and my Christmas lights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
I would go out and confront them. I hope to scare them off. I want them to know that you can't just come in here and take stuff without some coming out and saying something. I don't want to shoot anyone but I would try to hold them until the cops came and got them. All you need to do is keep one of them and the others will be caught later on. I would carry a shotgun out with my pistol as a backup. I my state I can protect property. I would not shoot them for stealing my stuff. I would just try to hold them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I would definitly confront them...in fact I have. In the scenario given, after calling 911, I'd confront the theives with a 1911 strapped and 12 ga. in hand. I would attempt to hold them for the cops, but would not shoot anyone for trying to escape (however, I might consider taking out the tires if the situation presented itself).

I do not believe in killing for "stuff", however, anytime you confront a BG(s) in this kind of a situation, it could suddenly turn into a deadly confrontation...then the whole game changes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
I am with tminer and Deke, I have no intentions of killing anyone over a lawn mower or even my large collection of tools. However I am not opposed to hosing them down with O.C. spray.

I will be armed when I go outside, but I would prefer to observe them for a while before confronting them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
81 Posts
i'd hold them at gun point. If they ran, so be it. If they draw a weapon or attempt to attack me, then its open fire time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
I have to disagree with the overall tone here.

Our legal system values their non-right to steal from you much more so than your right to personal property.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury we have from the defendent's own mouth testimony that on the night in question he approached the three goblins with a loaded shotgun in hand."

That is a fundamental error legally and tactically to approach and attempt to hold them. You are putting yourself in harm's way unnecessarily. Can you really say you are in fear for your life in this situation? On top of that, how many of us here have the legal authority to hold someone against their will? I personally am not a sworn officer of any kind and have no legal authority to stop these guys.

Can you outgun two or three assailants with 100% rate of success?

What if it's the neighbor's nephews visiting who think the shed is their uncle's and they see you coming with a gun in hand? How would they react any differently than real burglars?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Euclidean said:
I have to disagree with the overall tone here.

Our legal system values their non-right to steal from you much more so than your right to personal property.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury we have from the defendent's own mouth testimony that on the night in question he approached the three goblins with a loaded shotgun in hand."

That is a fundamental error legally and tactically to approach and attempt to hold them. You are putting yourself in harm's way unnecessarily. Can you really say you are in fear for your life in this situation? On top of that, how many of us here have the legal authority to hold someone against their will? I personally am not a sworn officer of any kind and have no legal authority to stop these guys.

Can you outgun two or three assailants with 100% rate of success?

What if it's the neighbor's nephews visiting who think the shed is their uncle's and they see you coming with a gun in hand? How would they react any differently than real burglars?
First of all IMO...it is my property and the rules for being armed on my property don't follow off property rules. I do not have to be in fear for my life to be armed or to attempt to hold someone who I catch burglerizing me while on my property...shooting them is a whole different set of issues. While not knowing what the situation is, I will arm myself and investigate.

Second..I don't know if I can outgun two or three assailants with 100% rate of success...maybe! :tongue:

Third...If it was the neighbors nephews or some kids, then a quick conversation ought to clear up any misunderstandings. I never said if they run...start blasting!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
But see that's the whole point.

You are walking into something willingly that you could easily avoid entirely. It's a question of no risk versus potential risk. The first chapter in the book on gun fu is awareness and avoidance. Yes you should certainly make yourself aware of the situation and try to have the drop on them. That's why I suggested you view the situation through a rifle scope if possible. Not only can you observe accurately, you also have the drop on them if they start coming to your back door.

I can relate to the situation. Even though I am an apartment dweller I have an external storage unit.

You know what's in there? My useless crap. Maybe $250 worth of stuff in all honesty. It is not worth risking my life, going up on charges, getting sued, or getting arrested to protect this junk.

I will load the rifle and the shotgun, hide in the bathroom, and call the police. If I hear the glass break, THEN I'll introduce someone to 7.62x39.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
868 Posts
After following this thread there are some good points so I am at the point if a Ducati Bike were in the shed just call 911 and wait for the boys in blue. They will sort it out in good fashion. Don't stand in front of windows holding firearms though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
I have to disagree with the idea of letting them take stuff. That just serves to encourage and embolden the vermin. I have the right to remain unmolested on my property. Sure, the stuff out there, for the most part isn't worth killing for. But, I worked hard for all I have, and I'll be a monkey's uncle if some jerk is gonna get an early christmas in my backyard while I watch. It's the principle of the thing, not the property value.
First, I call the cops and report the problem. I my neck of the woods, response time is about 2 minutes, and the cops tend to side with homeowners, especially when they're a block captain for the neighborhood watch. 2nd, I'll tell them from the back door to get lost. 3rd, I release 260+ lbs of dog. If that doesn't work, I'll probably go over and start busting up my shed with a shovel. That oughta freak 'em out. I'd rather destroy my own property than let some meth freak have it.

On the topic of avoidance being best, sure. In public, I'll back down and walk away to avoid a shooting. But I won't be run off my land. That just isn't me. I mean, where does it stop? Today, it's my shed stuff. Tommorrow, my TV. Next week, they'll just slap me around, but hey, they said they wouldn't kill me, so it's ok? Just lie there, honey, they'll be done soon, and we don't want to face charges. It's a slippery slope(gods, I hate that cliche!), and a bad one to start down.

How about this. What if they are stealing your friendly dog? Just property, right? I don't know about you, but they're family, almost like children. Sure, I'll send them out to fight, that's what they're for. But should we let someone take them?

That is a fundamental error legally and tactically to approach and attempt to hold them. You are putting yourself in harm's way unnecessarily. Can you really say you are in fear for your life in this situation? On top of that, how many of us here have the legal authority to hold someone against their will? I personally am not a sworn officer of any kind and have no legal authority to stop these guys.
Many states have a concept of citizen's or private person's arrest. If you witness a crime in progress, in most cases you can detain legally using whatever force is neccessary. Also, it may be a legal error to approach, but it's the right thing to do. If we allow the barbarians in, they will tear down society. Look where compromise got us until we started fighting back on gun rights. Sorry, no compromise, and no quarter to the bad guys.
My family hardly ever did "the right thing", that's why it's important to me that I do. I may go to jail for it someday, but at least I'll have that cold comfort while I sit in my cell.

Rant over. :mad:

On that note, read FortyFive's sig line, just above my post. Says it all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
Fjol it's not like I disagree with you or think the right thing to do is let it happen.

In fact when I am king and 3 guys are caught trespassing on your property and you shoot them, you will be given a medal.

But I won't be king for a long time if ever.

Asserting your natural rights is not valued in our legal system nor is the notion of personal responsibility.

Even if the contents of that shed are worth $15,000, will that cover your legal fees, not to mention the successful civil lawsuits all three of these guys are going to sue you for?

Coddling criminals is the objective of our justice system, and independent armed people do not fit in the picture. No it's not right but that's how it is. Honestly, even in this county, I'd go up on charges for trying to detain someone doing that.

Now if they're in your dwelling place... okay there's no good reason they should be in there. But that's not the scenario we are discussing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,746 Posts
I'm glad i don't live in that state LOL..........seriously though, I think at this point in time, all you could do is place a call to 911 and observe. Get as much info about the guys, their vehicle they have including plates. and the description of what they're stealing. If you have a video camera, take as much video where you're in a safe place to do so.
I do Workers' Comp Investigations, and you'll be amazed at how one picture, or min of video holds it's weight in a Court of Law.. I do a lot of other "interesting stuff" as well. (you can imagine) I once got a video of a Evangalistic Minister who was suing a large hotel chain. I got him VERY active within his church, jumping up and down, with a bad back, shoulders and neck. To say the very least, the Jury decided 12-0 that he would not get a penny. BTW, when I was on the stand, I could see the jury snickering and laughing to themselves as they watched my video :biggrin:
The Minister, his wife, their Daughter, AND his Dr all perjured themselves in the process too!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Well, Euclidean, I vote for you as King, then. :biggrin:
No, I hear where you're coming from, and I know that's how things are. But it's not gonna happen on my watch, that's all.
The American people need to stand up, and say, no more, that's enough, and then things will turn around. We also need to get jury nullification in use a lot more.
Will it happen? I doubt it. The looters are in charge, and our Republic is in grave danger. The grand experiment has failed, I'm afraid.
But that doesn't allow me to go against my beliefs. In the end, we are all judged by a jury greater than our peers, and I won't be found wanting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
693 Posts
What if they are stealing your friendly dog?
Try and take my dog, Sasha?

Why, I won't have to do a thing. Several large gentlemen that used to work for my Father will stash the body where no one is likely to find it.

Their genitals will be kept in a cut-glass container in my living room, where I may contemplate their folly from time to time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
615 Posts
Well, now my turn to chime in....I live in a state that places value on protecting one's private property....yes to the extent of using deadly force. I hate BGs from the minute of infractions to the most violent felons and since most start out with small stuff, it's just a matter of time before they escalate. I'm for total extermination...yeah I know, we haven't been able completely wipe out cockroaches either. You bet, I catch somebody stomping outta my shed with "my stuff", they're not going to get away without some bloodletting. This isn't just "cyber talk" from the safety of my computer....I've been victimized three times and unfortunately was never able to catch the bozos in the act. Bitter? you bet....for small stuff, the LEOs just take down the information and that's it....not their fault really. The system just seems to have revolving doors for these morons. I'm firm believer in setting examples, and if getting the news to report a BG shot and killed while vandalizing a house in a particular neighborhood, maybe the rest will think twice and go elsewhere. :smile: There. I feel better now!
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top