Defensive Carry banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
This video has been around for almost a year, but this morning was the first time I have seen it. Dennis Tueller, for whom the "Tueller Drill" was named, explains the issues in defending from a close range threat.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,894 Posts
Thanks for calling it a principle instead of a rule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,325 Posts
If you can give the 21 foot drill a try , I believe you will be surprised at the results , I was at about a 50% rate of winning this fight ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: G26Raven

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
If you can give the 21 foot drill a try , I believe you will be surprised at the results , I was at about a 50% rate of winning this fight ...
When we took an advanced pistol course from International Tactical Training (ITTS) in Los Angeles, they had a couple of moving targets (on a track) that come towards you very quickly, to practice this skill. My wife and I both managed to engage the targets before they closed to within striking distance, but you really have to hustle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,325 Posts
When we took an advanced pistol course from International Tactical Training (ITTS) in Los Angeles, they had a couple of moving targets (on a track) that come towards you very quickly, to practice this skill. My wife and I both managed to engage the targets before they closed to within striking distance, but you really have to hustle.
Just curious , how you were dressed during the drill , cover garments etc .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Just curious , how you were dressed during the drill , cover garments etc .
I never practice or train without a cover garment. My wife was not wearing a cover garment
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,894 Posts
"Where is my tree?". Learn it, live it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
33,894 Posts
This video has been around for almost a year, but this morning was the first time I have seen it. Dennis Tueller, for whom the "Tueller Drill" was named, explains the issues in defending from a close range threat.

Excellent, worthwhile video. Set seventeen minutes aside and watch it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,508 Posts
I think his words about "getting offline" and "action beats reaction" are particularly important, even more than the distance and reaction issues. For the first idea, if someone is charging me, they are creating momentum and concentrating their balance on maintaining that momentum. If I were to give someone a gentle shove while they are standing still, they will probably recover from it. However, if I give someone charging a gentle shove off his line of momentum, he can go flying off his feet. It is all timing, but it is no more complicated to learn than catching a ball.

For the second idea, Bruce Lee said words to the effect, "Determine when your opponent is going to strike, and you strike first." Cops can't always do that, but defenders can. If someone is presenting a real threat, the way to null out reaction time is to attack them. "Defending" will keep you "fighting on the back foot." If you are surprised, find a way to cover your vital areas, create space and then counter-attack. That counter-attack could include the gun. "Defending" against an attack means you are playing the game the attacker has started. Unless you are an absolutely top tier martial artist, it is hard to win an exchange an attacker has started. But if you can get even a little disengagement and immediately launch your own attack, then he is playing your game.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,331 Posts
"The person acting has the advantage over the person reacting "

That was my favorite quote of the video. Remember, when your training, you already know this "BG"(target) is coming fast, from 21 feet. Your ready for it and you still don't always "win".

Out in the real world, where you're just going about your day, you don't know who, when, where, or why the the real BG is going to attack you.

That's why I consider the gun in my pocket my primary, not my bug. When I go from "condition yellow to orange", my hand is in my pocket with a good firm grip on my 442 ready for a Lightening fast draw.

This is what I practice the most over anything else, because I feel like this is by far the most likely scenario to play out for real in the real world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,760 Posts
When we took an advanced pistol course from International Tactical Training (ITTS) in Los Angeles, they had a couple of moving targets (on a track) that come towards you very quickly, to practice this skill. My wife and I both managed to engage the targets before they closed to within striking distance, but you really have to hustle.
Did you offline?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Did you offline?
Pardon my density, but not sure exactly what your question is here? If you mean, were we using a simulator, no we were not. We were using real pistols with real ammo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OD*

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,760 Posts
Pardon my density, but not sure exactly what your question is here? If you mean, were we using a simulator, no we were not. We were using real pistols with real ammo.
No. The proper tactic when one is being charged is to move laterally moving yourself offline to the attack. If you do not, you will lose every time. Just getting shots on target does not get it in the real world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,649 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
No. The proper tactic when one is being charged is to move laterally moving yourself offline to the attack. If you do not, you will lose every time. Just getting shots on target does not get it in the real world.
I agree 100%, and yes I moved. That's the way we have trained starting with our first firearms instructor. I start the draw at the same time I start to move.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
210 Posts
I had a national guard captain I taught about the 21 foot principle. The guard captain kept running a friend of mine down that was a local police chief that had shot and kill a wife beater that had attacked my friend while my friend was trying to get the wife beaters badly beaten wife to a woman's shelter. All the regular police units were tied up on calls they could not break away from so the Chief of this small town answered the call because he felt he needed to get there NOW and alone! The wife beater charged my friend from hiding while the chief was getting the woman into his patrol car and he hardly had time to STOP him with deadly force. The captain's name was Raymond so after I had all I could take I set up a similar scenario with Raymond knowing I was coming for him with my simulated knife. Little did Raymond know I had a "skosh" bit of knife training. I had Raymond holster his Sim-.45 in his holster and told him that as soon as he saw me coming to draw his gun. Combining what I know about knife fighting and human reactions from my psychology degree. I angled across the room slowly closing the distance without seeming to do so all the while gesturing and talking loudly letting him get used to seeing motion without feeling threatened by it. A trained knife fighter will never let you see he has a blade before you are cut. I started from well over 21 feet and before Raymond could react I had my blade under his chin with my right hand and my left hand had his right hand trapped on his sim-.45 still in its holster. I smiled and said if this was real my blade would have been in your brain. So do you still say you could have shot to wound the wife beater rather than killing him? Raymond swallowed hard looked around the rally room at everyone looking at us and said "I see your point." I laughed and let him of the hook so to speak. Raymond never brought up the subject of my friend again.

I was in my mid-30s back then.

Angular Motion can close distances without seeming to do so as well as making you a harder target. Practice is the key.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
525 Posts
Good stuff here. Now I understand the 21 foot rule. Thanks for bringing up this gem.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top