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Failure drills

2K views 21 replies 12 participants last post by  TwoRavens 
#1 ·
This is not scenario per se but - what do you folks find the best method to ''force'' failures - the better to practice your failure drills??

I have tried ball and dummy but it is sometimes hard to duplicate, say, a stovepipe.
 
#3 ·
Failure drills to me meant you hit the BG twice and he didn't go down so better shoot for the computer region. :smile: perhaps the title should be malfunction drills. Yes I know picky picky etc but I think you know I am just getting on your good side here P95. :smile:
 
#6 ·
My brother and I will run failure drills occasionally. We load each other's guns and then hand them back, so we have no idea what's going to happen. We'll do things like:

• fail to seat the magazine
• insert a snapcap somewhere in the mag
• insert a spent cartridge in the mag, which will usually not chamber correctly
• insert a spent cartridge in the tube and then chamber a live round, which will simulate a stovepipe
 
#8 ·
Betty said:
My brother and I will run failure drills occasionally. We load each other's guns and then hand them back, so we have no idea what's going to happen. We'll do things like:

• fail to seat the magazine
• insert a snapcap somewhere in the mag
• insert a spent cartridge in the mag, which will usually not chamber correctly
• insert a spent cartridge in the tube and then chamber a live round, which will simulate a stovepipe
I used to do the same thing when I was in the military. Before passing out the loaded magazines for some live fire training we would load several of them with a random expended blank cartridge. Click and no bang. :mad:
 
#12 ·
Yep - like your thoughts there Betty - thx.

Bud - Amerc??? Won't touch it ever again!!! Wolf actually has never given me much grief but then with 9mm in particular, doubt I have used much of it - plus SIG seems happy digesting about anything!
 
#14 ·
I don't try to make FTF's or FTE's, other than by adding random snapcaps to my mags. It has seemed like unnecessary abuse with the potential to damage the action, to use spent casings to intentionally force a misfeed. I have been reluctant to use live rounds in such a way that I might damage them or induce setback. So, I rely on snapcaps. The nature of the failure doesn't really change my failure drill, much, anyway - I seem to go through the same steps no matter where the failure is. Am I missing something?
 
#15 ·
No Tom - don't think you are missing anything!

The only thing that I see making a ''std'' malfunction drill become potentially totally ineffective tho is a severe FTE - and that might be hard to duplicate - if in particular, worst-case scenario - extractor claw has bust!!! Horrors!

Reach for BUG!! :smile:
 
#16 ·
Since the fix for type 1 and type 2 is the same, I just take six mags and put 2 to 3 dummies in each and randomly pick them out a pocket, or get a friend to load them for you. I also down load mags, so I get slide locks when I'm not expecting them.

The only thing you miss is actually seeing the 'stove' pipe sticking out of the gun, which is no big deal, since you train to instinctively tap, rack/roll or reload, tap, rack whenever you get click no-bang.

You can set up a type 3 by putting an empty piece of brass in the chsmber and gently letting the slide go forward. I don't know of way to make a type 3 random.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Type 1: Failure to fire (bad primer)
Type 2: Failure to eject (stove pipe)
Type 3: Failure to extract (double feed) a.k.a. I'm Fu&^ked

Obviously there are other causes besides those listed, e.g. a Type 1 could be caused by a broken firing pin...
 
#19 ·
Phill - haha - indeed a #3 is - well - as you said probably! :biggrin:

True enough tho yeah - empty chambered and slow slide down - does make for something close but I reckon here a random is about impossible, short of disabling an extractor but then - we'd still know! It is that very event which makes pucker turn to laundry time - or worse. :eek:
 
#20 ·
TwoRavens said:
Type 1: Failure to fire (bad primer)
Type 2: Failure to eject (stove pipe)
Type 3: Failure to extract (double feed) a.k.a. I'm Fu&^ked

Obviously there are other causes besides those listed, e.g. a Type 1 could be caused by a broken firing pin...
Got it...thanks. I can't recall ever experiencing any of those. I have experienced several "fail to feed" or "fail to return to battery". Does that have a number associated with it?
I assume that type 1 and type 2 malfunctions, as well as "fail to feed" are all solved by the same method, i.e. tap, rack??
Thanks for the help. :smile:
 
#21 ·
Failures to feed, fire, and eject are all fixed by the tap/roll/rack method. A failure to extract is the bad one that takes the rip/roll/rack/reload (inlcuding chambering a round) method.


Some folks don't add the "roll" part. We teach shooters to roll the pistol so that the ejection port is ppointed towards the ground to use gravity as an aid. For righties this entails rolling the right hand over so that the thumb is pointing towards the ground. It's easier for lefties as they only have to roll 90 degrees towards the inside of the stance to achieve the same thing.
 
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