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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I am one of those unfortunate souls that gets a 5 day delay from NICS every time I purchase a firearm, I'm told that for me it's because of my very common name. This has been annoying in the past, so I finally decided to do the Voluntary Appeal File(VAF) Application and obtain a Universal Personal Identification Number(UPIN) to speed along future purchases. I mailed out my app and finger prints on 5-18-13 and received a letter from the FBI yesterday(5-29-13), stating that they are back logged and are currently processing applications from February of this year, so I gather that puts me about 4 to 5 months out before they get mine done.

Anyway, from what I gather about this process, by completing the VAF, you are allowing the FBI NICS system to keep and maintain records of you to HOPEFULLY avoid a delay from NICS in the future, there are no guarantees.

I'm wondering how this has worked out for those of you that have done this? Do you get a proceed from NICS every time now? Or is it still hit and miss?

Also, for others, how do you feel about voluntarily allowing the FBI to maintain a file on you, which basically brands you as a gun owner? You can request that the information be destroyed at a latter date though if you no longer want the file kept. What do you think?
 

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...the customary Brady Law delay time is three business days(days that the State offices are open for business)...if that were to lap over a weekend, the delay could become more than that, since Sat-Sun are not normally days that State offices are open

ATF 5300.4 of Sep 2005 page 219-220(details regarding appeals and options continue through page 228)

...online at : http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf


...when an FFL gets a delay on your 4473 from NICS on Monday, they must wait Tues, Wed, Thus and you may have your transfer, even if they haven't responded, on Friday morning, with no further wait...I haven't had a customer apply for a universal pin number, only appeal a denial ...

...we had about 6 who ALWAYS got delayed...probably less than 5 4473 applicants whose delay lasted the full three business days...
 

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I've never encountered a situation that needed one. The gov't saw fit to assign me a number many years ago, and I resist using it still. It's a SS number. It will separate "common names."
 
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Yeah on the purchase information form is a spot to add your social security number to avoid mixups and ensure it is you being checked. I would not recommend doing it, but in your case it may be worth it. Just a suggestion.
 

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With a common surname like mine, yes, I frequently got delayed by a day or two. But when I moved to Arizona and got my AZ CCW, by AZ law that put me in the "express lane" for purchases - the CCW essentially means "pre-approved". I know a number of other states work the same way, but I couldn't tell you which ones.
 

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I don't like the idea of a UPIN, and have never needed one anyway. I'm probably jinxing myself by saying this, but I have never been delayed. I suppose I can see the utility of having one if you have a name or some other identifying information that is rather common or is similar to someone who is disqualified from owning firearms.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've never encountered a situation that needed one. The gov't saw fit to assign me a number many years ago, and I resist using it still. It's a SS number. It will separate "common names."
Yeah on the purchase information form is a spot to add your social security number to avoid mixups and ensure it is you being checked. I would not recommend doing it, but in your case it may be worth it. Just a suggestion.
Yeah, I did use my SSN, hasn't helped me. I forgot to mention in the OP that there is likely another reason that I am getting a delay, and that delay is ALWAYS 5 days. Someone I work with also gets a delay every time, so he did some digging and found out it all went back to an arrest for battery he had when he was younger. He was never charged, but for some reason the paper work did not get completed properly. Because of this, the FBI has to physically call the police department that made the arrest and get the missing info. Now, I have never been arrested for any type of assault or battery, or any other felony for that matter. Once for driving while suspended when I was a kid, but I doubt that would do it and I haven't been able to get any more information about my situation yet.

With a common surname like mine, yes, I frequently got delayed by a day or two. But when I moved to Arizona and got my AZ CCW, by AZ law that put me in the "express lane" for purchases - the CCW essentially means "pre-approved". I know a number of other states work the same way, but I couldn't tell you which ones.
That should be the case here in WA too, but it is at the LGS's discretion to do so. I have my concealed carry permit and there are a couple shops that I can go into and walk out with a firearm, but they are neither nearby to me or well stocked enough, I do use them though when I need to transfer from out of state. The larger chains around here have one of two different polices, one is to go along with the delay regardless of CPL, and the other is to actually wait for the response from NICS even though they are allowed to release after the specified delay period. This policy has caused me to have some in depth arguments with the manager of that store, Sportsman's Warehouse. I explained what the policy meant to me and how I could no longer support a store that cause me such difficulty by creating a policy so much stricter than the federal mandate already in place. He apologized, but ultimately it is not his call nor his choice, it's a company wide policy that has been created and he just has to follow it, so I just thanked him for his time and reminded him to relay the message that I would be sure to never spend a dime in their store again and would also spread the word about such an infringing policy so others could make their own informed decision.
 

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...then that explains the 5 day delay instead of the 3 business day delay authorized in law...the FFL you're buying from is trying to one-up the ATF...and "protect" himself by being more strict than the law...

...I have a retired LEO in this area who runs pawn shops...TX CHL exempts us from a NICS call when we buy...he insists on calling in every purchase "Just in case you've done a felony since you got your CHL"...those I run with bypass his shop because of that...

...even if you get the PIN number, the ATF won't FORCE the retailing FFL to release the weapon within 3 business days...I had a drunk customer come in one evening to pick up a pawned shotgun and I refused to let him have it...told him to quiet down and get out or I'd call the police...and to come back when he was sober...he called the ATF and they told him it was the FFL's option to refuse to sell/release a gun to ANYONE that they felt shouldn't have one...a coupla days later, he finally niced up enough to get his gun back and we never saw him again...
Yeah, I did use my SSN, hasn't helped me. I forgot to mention in the OP that there is likely another reason that I am getting a delay, and that delay is ALWAYS 5 days. Someone I work with also gets a delay every time, so he did some digging and found out it all went back to an arrest for battery he had when he was younger. He was never charged, but for some reason the paper work did not get completed properly. Because of this, the FBI has to physically call the police department that made the arrest and get the missing info. Now, I have never been arrested for any type of assault or battery, or any other felony for that matter. Once for driving while suspended when I was a kid, but I doubt that would do it and I haven't been able to get any more information about my situation yet.



That should be the case here in WA too, but it is at the LGS's discretion to do so. I have my concealed carry permit and there are a couple shops that I can go into and walk out with a firearm, but they are neither nearby to me or well stocked enough, I do use them though when I need to transfer from out of state. The larger chains around here have one of two different polices, one is to go along with the delay regardless of CPL, and the other is to actually wait for the response from NICS even though they are allowed to release after the specified delay period. This policy has caused me to have some in depth arguments with the manager of that store, Sportsman's Warehouse. I explained what the policy meant to me and how I could no longer support a store that cause me such difficulty by creating a policy so much stricter than the federal mandate already in place. He apologized, but ultimately it is not his call nor his choice, it's a company wide policy that has been created and he just has to follow it, so I just thanked him for his time and reminded him to relay the message that I would be sure to never spend a dime in their store again and would also spread the word about such an infringing policy so others could make their own informed decision.

...if an individual FFL, or a chain store, wants to put more "company policy" restrictions on a purchase than the ATF requires...they don't stand with us, but against us...and my money won't be spent there...
 

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I've never encountered a situation that needed one. The gov't saw fit to assign me a number many years ago, and I resist using it still. It's a SS number. It will separate "common names."
I also get delayed at EVERY purchase thru an FFL....EVERYTIME & adding the SSN DOES NOT HELP......... I even get held up whenever I come back into the US from overseas at Immigration. I don't understand why I have any issues. Never been arrested, I even go to numerous military & government facilities for work....I was even born on a military base hospital.

I have considered going the UPIN route as well......
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
...then that explains the 5 day delay instead of the 3 business day delay authorized in law...the FFL you're buying from is trying to one-up the ATF...and "protect" himself by being more strict than the law...

...if an individual FFL, or a chain store, wants to put more "company policy" restrictions on a purchase than the ATF requires...they don't stand with us, but against us...and my money won't be spent there...
I am NOT buying from the shop that is one-uping the ATF, that store is Sportsman's Warehouse, and I will not be giving them any of my money. I get a 5 day delay from NICS no matter what store I buy from. There are few stores that will do as they should and issue without a background check because of my concealed carry license. NONE of the big box stores around here will do that though!
 

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Move to Nebraska, we don't have any delays.... you go to a police station in your area and apply for a "Firearm Purchase Certificate" which costs 10 bucks, they do a extensive background check and send you the cert which is good for 3 years. Show the certificate when purchasing the firearm and the gun is turned over to you during the transaction. Now that Nebraska is allowing the CCW, that certificate will replace the Firearm purchase certificate in the same manner. We instituted the purchase certificate about 6 months before the Brady bill went national and are the only state that doesn't have to mess with the federal government every time we want to buy a gun.... much easier. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Move to Nebraska, we don't have any delays.... you go to a police station in your area and apply for a "Firearm Purchase Certificate" which costs 10 bucks, they do a extensive background check and send you the cert which is good for 3 years. Show the certificate when purchasing the firearm and the gun is turned over to you during the transaction. Now that Nebraska is allowing the CCW, that certificate will replace the Firearm purchase certificate in the same manner. We instituted the purchase certificate about 6 months before the Brady bill went national and are the only state that doesn't have to mess with the federal government every time we want to buy a gun.... much easier. :)
Sounds like a good deal going there, problem is, we basically have the same thing but some retailers choose to have a different policy, more and more of them are going this way. Since July 22, 2011, all CPL's issued can be used for the full period that they are valid as an alternative to a background check, this is per the ATF and the Brady law.

While looking into a few things I found another big store in my area that also has a policy of waiting for a resolution from NICS. That store is Fisherman's Marine & Supply. Even without these two retailers though, the medium sized outlets are still not recognizing a CPL as they should. I had never really worried about it much before, but after getting my CPL last year, I was under the impression from researching the laws that I would no longer have to endure the delay, imagine my displeasure when I found that not to be the case because of inane store policies!

Are there some more WA residents that can chime in with their experiences?
 

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...NICS simply does not have a "5 day delay"...it's a 3 day delay...but it's 3 BUSINESS days...apply Monday...delay Tues,Wed,Thus...pick it up with or without proceed on Fri am...the only way they have authority to delay 5 days is if holiday or weekend are in the middle...
...Sportsman's Warehouse is almost as high in my regard as CTD...and there's whale droppings on their roof...

...hope you get some relief through obtaining a pin number...it sucks to be delayed when you've been good...
I am NOT buying from the shop that is one-uping the ATF, that store is Sportsman's Warehouse, and I will not be giving them any of my money. I get a 5 day delay from NICS no matter what store I buy from. There are few stores that will do as they should and issue without a background check because of my concealed carry license. NONE of the big box stores around here will do that though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
...NICS simply does not have a "5 day delay"...it's a 3 day delay...but it's 3 BUSINESS days...apply Monday...delay Tues,Wed,Thus...pick it up with or without proceed on Fri am...the only way they have authority to delay 5 days is if holiday or weekend are in the middle...
...Sportsman's Warehouse is almost as high in my regard as CTD...and there's whale droppings on their roof...

...hope you get some relief through obtaining a pin number...it sucks to be delayed when you've been good...
Thanks, I guess it's just the weekends causing the 5 day then, I suppose if I went in on Monday or Tuesday, I could have it after 3 days. Oh well, doesn't really matter, I feel that any waiting is too much waiting. Funny thing is, I actually received my glock 26 the quickest and I bought it off of gunbroker.com. Paid on a Tuesday morning, shop shipped it that day and I had it in my hands Thursday because I used a LGS that properly recognizes my CPL.
 

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Has anyone ever filed a restraining order against you? Perhaps an old girlfriend?

You might run your name through the court system and see what's out there.

Heck, I had a warrant for my arrest and didn't even know it until one Halloween night and I was dressed like a hooker, got pulled over, and....that's a long story.

Never mind.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
So, I've got an update of sorts.

I've received my UPIN after 5 months and I was eager to try it out. I went down to a LGS, and found a Beretta Nano that I'd been wanting for a while. Did all my paperwork and they called it in, got put on hold for about 12 minutes and then came back with a delay! I couldn't believe it, I know that there's no guarantee with a UPIN, but the gun shop said that they had never seen a delay with a UPIN.

I don't know what I can do at this point to avoid the delay. The only thing we could think of was that because the UPIN was just issued, it may not be in the system completely. I dunno about that, but I sure am frustrated with the system. I have never had any problems with the law other than a few speeding tickets, I have zero violence in my history and have never been arrested.
 
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