Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
At my last CHL class this past Saturday I had a lady that was almost kidnapped by another woman on a Saturday afternoon at 1 pm in the parking lot of a Hobby Lobby in Longview, Texas.
This is her story.
Tell me how many mistakes she made and what she did right.

She left the store with her hands full of sacks walking back to her pickup.
Her truck is a 4 door, plain white chevy and was parked just a few places down from the front door.
As she unlocked the door she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted.
As she places the packages into the back sit of her truck she notices a woman getting out of the vehicle next to her.
This person is nicely dressed, clean looking, and has long, neatly done hair.
She is not overly concerned and thinks she is just going to ask a question.
This lady turns back to her truck placing the last few items into the back seat.

The woman that gets out of the suburban places a arm around her and sticks a gun to her chin and says. "THIS IS NOT A JOKE. GET INTO YOUR TRUCK OR I WILL SHOOT YOU."
My student said it just was really a strange feeling having the muzzle of the semi-auto pressed to her chin.
She reached up and pulled the pistol away from her face and the struggle began.
The victim started screaming "GOD HELP ME!" She scream this three times.
On the third time the BG broke free from the struggle with the gun and jumped back into the suburban as it started moving.
The victim thought they may go ahead and shoot her while the suburban was leaving, so she jumped into the floor board of the back seat.
She continued to hear the Suburban leaving so she jumped back up and tried to get the license number but, had no luck.

OK pick it apart.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
838 Posts
"she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted".
That never a good sign.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Assuming there was a police report, they should have started canvassing the stores in the shopping center for security camera footage. That could have ID'ed the Suburban and helped catch the attempted kidnappers. Let's see, attempted kidnapping, assault with a deadly weapon with a gun enhancement, ...

For the moment though, she did OK. I think I would have continued the crawl through the backseats to get as far away from the assailant as possible, maybe even exit the truck on the far side to run to a store.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,652 Posts
Beter to make a stand right there in town than being taken elsewhere against one's will.
As I was trained in the military: your best chance of escape is in the first few moments of capture. She did well. Furthermore, her chances of surviving that attempted adduction were likely very slim.

BTW: Ref. to another post; In the southwest hot zones, tinted windows with motor running (a/c) is very common.
Regards,
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
568 Posts
The only faults I can find are that she wasn't armed and she should be more wary of people. Looks like she's working to correct that, good for her.

What she did correctly was fight. She didn't just submit and meekly get into the Suburban. That's a really good sign that she'll learn from her incident and be prepared to take care of herself in the future.

If she had entered the Suburban she'd likely have been killed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
536 Posts
If you leave with the BG(like Brady says "Just Cooperate and you will probably survive.") you chances of surviving the incident, while not 0% are dang close. DO NOT LEAVE WITHTHE BG....... Once you leave with them you are at their mercy, they have none. Yell, Scream, Claw, Preferably blow their head off with a .45 I may die during their attempt to kidnap me but I will take a few BG's with me in the process. :comeandgetsome:

The only fault I see is assuming the lady was just asking a question, you are a threat until I deem otherwise. After that she did exactly the right thing. :congrats: :bier: :congrats: and is there to tell you about it.

If you see a suspicious vehicle next to yours just walk on by as if it is not your car, look at the license plate, circle back in to the store and let security know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,954 Posts
At my last CHL class this past Saturday I had a lady that was almost kidnapped by another woman on a Saturday afternoon at 1 pm in the parking lot of a Hobby Lobby in Longview, Texas.
This is her story.
Tell me how many mistakes she made and what she did right.

She left the store with her hands full of sacks walking back to her pickup.
Her truck is a 4 door, plain white chevy and was parked just a few places down from the front door.
As she unlocked the door she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted.
As she places the packages into the back sit of her truck she notices a woman getting out of the vehicle next to her.
This person is nicely dressed, clean looking, and has long, neatly done hair.
She is not overly concerned and thinks she is just going to ask a question.
This lady turns back to her truck placing the last few items into the back seat.

The woman that gets out of the suburban places a arm around her and sticks a gun to her chin and says. "THIS IS NOT A JOKE. GET INTO YOUR TRUCK OR I WILL SHOOT YOU."
My student said it just was really a strange feeling having the muzzle of the semi-auto pressed to her chin.
She reached up and pulled the pistol away from her face and the struggle began.
The victim started screaming "GOD HELP ME!" She scream this three times.
On the third time the BG broke free from the struggle with the gun and jumped back into the suburban as it started moving.
The victim thought they may go ahead and shoot her while the suburban was leaving, so she jumped into the floor board of the back seat.
She continued to hear the Suburban leaving so she jumped back up and tried to get the license number but, had no luck.

OK pick it apart.
For starters very bad SA
1) both hands full of packages
2)A suburban next to her running with dark tinted windows and she gets between the two vehiciles
3) she stands there and assesses the sitiation completely based on how the woman was dressed
4) she wasn't carrying a firearm of her own(yet).

I wouldn't have gotten into the same situation, and here is what I would have done differently.
1) I would have been carrying
2) the packages I was carrying would have been in my left(weak ) hand and my keys and alarm remote would have been in my stong hand
3) I would have put my packages in on the other side and not gotten myself in the position she did. If things didn't seem right to my spidey senses I would have got in on the passenger side as well and immediately locked my door like I always do.
4) I wouldn't have assumed anything based on how someone was dressed(decoys can be painted any color).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
"she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted".
That never a good sign.
It was probably over 100 degrees that day. A motor running in Texas is not usual but it pays to be cautious.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,738 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
For starters very bad SA
1) both hands full of packages
2)A suburban next to her running with dark tinted windows and she gets between the two vehiciles
3) she stands there and assesses the sitiation completely based on how the woman was dressed
4) she wasn't carrying a firearm of her own(yet).

1. I agree
2. I agree
3. At least she was able to give a good description to police. She was at least observant.
4. They is why she was at the class.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,469 Posts
In addition to what's been said, most people feel like that kind of thing won't happen to me, not where I live.:sheep:

Good news is, she lived to make sure she isn't a victim again.:congrats:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,046 Posts
Rugergirl has some great responses.

I might add that carrying enough stuff to fill both arms is not uncommon for a lot of people. However, maybe if you have more items than you can carry in one hand, you should use a shopping cart to take the items to your vehicle.

The shopping cart becomes a mobile obstacle which you can place between yourself and a potential attacker if you are accosted on the way to your car or while at your car. Plus your hands are relatively free and able to go for your gun when you are merely pushing the cart instead of actually carrying items in your arms.

Dark tinted windows and vehicle running in the summer is not uncommon. In fact it is so common that most people do not give it a second thought. And of course, 99.9% of the time, the boogey man is not lurking inside waiting to pounce. But it just takes that one time, now doesn't it...

Rugergirl is very astute to point out that there is no reason you can't just go to the passenger side of your vehicle to load your items and enter your vehicle if necessary.

If you've brought a shopping cart with you, it can be a barrier for you as you load your car. This way, you have your own vehicle between you and the suspicious vehicle, you have the shopping cart protecting your rear or flank, and you are facing the suspicious vehicle instead of having your back to it.

You should be able to see through your own side windows to see who exits the suspect vehicle and note any untoward behavior.

lastly, it's always best to have a firearm for yourself!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,858 Posts
IMHO, she should of yelled "Somebody call the Police or Somebody help me!!better than yelling OMG. More likely to attract attention of somebody. If I was carrying and somebody was able to get that close to put a gun under my chin . I would be pulling the firearm away from my face and pulling out my firearm and place two point blank com. Any attack that you can walk away from is ok in my book.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
"she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted".
That never a good sign.
They're in TX, 100* +heat, motors running (for a/c) and tinted windows are common place....as are Suburbans :wave:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
1)For starters very bad SA
2) both hands full of packages
3)A suburban next to her running with dark tinted windows and she gets between the two vehiciles
4) she stands there and assesses the sitiation completely based on how the woman was dressed
5) she wasn't carrying a firearm of her own(yet).
1) I disagree, she did notice the vehicle with the motor running, she just didn't think anything of it (after all it was a parking lot, they could have just gotten in their vehicle getting ready to leave)

2) This to me is really the biggest issue as it doesn't allow you to (eaisly) fend of an attack (though the packages could be shoved towards the attacker)

3) Whos to say there wasn't a vehicle on the other side of her's as well? And running or not it could hold someone with ill intent...

4) If the womans manerisms (not just mode of dress) didn't set off alarms there was no reason for her to feel threatened, after all it doesn't sound like the other woman burst out of the Suburban and rushed at the (intended) victim.

5) As noted she's addressing that issue. Everyone has to start somewhere, and everyones reasons are different.

1a) I wouldn't have gotten into the same situation, and here is what I would have done differently.

1) I would have been carrying

2) the packages I was carrying would have been in my left (weak ) hand and my keys and alarm remote would have been in my stong hand

3) I would have put my packages in on the other side and not gotten myself in the position she did. If things didn't seem right to my spidey senses I would have got in on the passenger side as well and immediately locked my door like I always do.

4) I wouldn't have assumed anything based on how someone was dressed(decoys can be painted any color).
1a) More correctly, you hope you would never end up in this situation, but it's not an impossibility.

1) See previous answer #5

2) Did you miss the point that she had more packages then one could hold/carry in a single hand? The poster who commented she should have used a shopping cart (if one was available, they aren't always) was on the right track as it frees up the hands and can be used as a "push" tool in between you and your assailant, another option would have been to ask the store to have one of their workers help carry the stuff out.

3) Again, what would you have done if a vehicle was parked on the other side as well? As for your "spidey senses" I agree, but apparently there was nothing that set off her "spidey senses"

4) See answer 4 above

Over all I'd have to say she handled the situation well by fighting her off on the spot and not complying, though I would also agree with the previous comment on yelling "Help" or "Help-Police" over "God Help Me" (might also consider yelling "Rape" as that would get a lot of attention) and if she had her keys still in her hand, hitting the alarm button on the remote (assuming it has one), this could have been done while she dove to the floor of her truck if she couldn't do it prior.

Mainly I'm glad the woman involved in this came out of the situation (basically) unharmed, and is taking the steps to further protect herself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,954 Posts
2) Did you miss the point that she had more packages then one could hold/carry in a single hand? The poster who commented she should have used a shopping cart (if one was available, they aren't always) was on the right track as it frees up the hands and can be used as a "push" tool in between you and your assailant, another option would have been to ask the store to have one of their workers help carry the stuff out.
Not exactly but I forgot to mention the option of a cart, mainly because I can carry roughly 45-50 in one hand. But for other women that aren't physically strong enough a cart of help from the store personel would be an option, just one that I normally wouldn't think of at a craft store like Hobby Lobby.
My right hand is always either empty or I have my keys in my hand and I'm ready to press the panic button on the remote for my alarm. I just normally keep my right hand free to draw if I must.
I mostly always put packages in on the passenger side, I drive an older Bronco and the drivers seat doesn't move far enough forward to put anything of medium to large size in the back.
As a general rule I never park next to a vehicle like mine or a van, to me it's a potential hiding spot for trouble and blocks my vision of what is around me.
I've always had a sense of SA and since I started carrying I have fined tuned it even more. I hit the lock button on the door panel as soon as I open it, so it's ready to lock the instant I get in. When I arrive anywhere before I shut off the ignition and the doors unlock I always look around to see who is where and doing what or where someone could be hiding, even in broad daylight. Hubby calls it overkill, I call it common sense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
For someone who was not trained or prepared with a gun she did very well. The main thing she did right was to not get into that car with the assailant. That just never turns out good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
469 Posts
1. She left the store with her hands full of sacks walking back to her pickup.

Use a cart to free up your hands or use as a barrier or even a weapon or carry the sacks weak side freeing up storn hand for defense or a draw if you are armed.

2. Her truck is a 4 door, plain white chevy and was parked just a few places down from the front door.

Smart of her to stay CLOSE to the store,not on the other side of the lot

3. As she unlocked the door she notices a suburban next to her has the motor running and the window are darkly tinted.

YES this may be common, but still, this is also where SA comes in to play,I would have loaded vehicle from passenger side instead of turning my back.

4. As she places the packages into the back sit of her truck she notices a woman getting out of the vehicle next to her.
This person is nicely dressed, clean looking, and has long, neatly done hair. She is not overly concerned and thinks she is just going to ask a question.


She THOUGHT or ASSUMED there was nothing wrong, no SA here, once again. Even if someone is "only going to ask a question", KEEP AT LEAST ARMS DISTANCE AWAY,this gives space to not only retaliate,but also gives you time to SEE them make a move if they are going to. Someone can be dressed in an armani suit getting out of a 100,000 $$ mercedes and try to kidnap or kill someone,as they say "looks can be decieving" or "you cant judge a book by its cover."

5. This lady turns back to her truck placing the last few items into the back seat.

She noticed the other person get out of the vehicle assumig she was going to ask a question,but yet she(Vic) TURNED HER BACK away from the would-be kidnapper and thus opened herself up for a suprise from behind situation which could have EASILY killed her.

Although she survived and was NOT taken away, she should have been more code yellow you could say, more aware.

Just my input

Steve
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top