[faif2d]

I see that some of the manufactures are filling the hollow points with rubber or plastic to help them expand after going through heavy cloth. I was wondering why this would work better than the hollow filling up with cloth? Should I add some epoxy to my bullets or Goop?? Sounds like those should work just as well as the factory's solution.

 

[smotta]

If for nothing more than legal issues, I would NOT alter any factory ammunition that you currently own. As far as performance, I wouldn't know.

 

[gumaro]

I'm sure there is more involved in the design than just filling the cavity, if you add something you change the weight and not to mention velocities, performance, etc. Then you have to run test to determine expansion, penetration, etc. One more thing to consider if you're involved in a shooting, it might not help in your defense. Just buy the manufactures product everything has been all ready done, test wise. I currently have the Hornady CD in 9mm.

 

[cmb]

I don't think I would alter bullets, either. The urban legends about cutting grooves an whatever, the test are out there and I would choose my ammo based on that and practice so I can do my part!

 

[varob]

I don't know either, but you can bet that they have tons of R&D, testing, and field trials to make sure they have it right.

 

[PastorPack]

The rubbery stuff in hornady's critical defense ammo actually does an even, controlled expansion and is supposed to provide reliable expansion.

 

[edr9x23super]

If you go altering your ammo in any way shape or form you could very well end up convincing a hostile prosecutor that you were trying to make the rounds more lethal, such as if you used reloaded ammunition. Massad Ayoob has gone over things like this in his many writings on the subject, and advises against it for those same reasons. Personally, the rounds I fire in self-defense will be rounds that I bought from a commercial manufacturer, and it wil be ammunition a law enforcement agency would issues it's officers.

That way the prosecutor or DA can't even go there.....So leave that ammo alone. Worry more about putting those rounds where they need to be, in your opponents' brainpan....

 

[pcon]

The rubbery stuff in hornady's critical defense ammo actually does an even, controlled expansion and is supposed to provide reliable expansion.

Yeah, this is what I was thinking of too. I saw this in the latest issue of American Rifleman.

 

[razorblade]

If you go altering your ammo in any way shape or form you could very well end up convincing a hostile prosecutor that you were trying to make the rounds more lethal, such as if you used reloaded ammunition. Massad Ayoob has gone over things like this in his many writings on the subject, and advises against it for those same reasons. Personally, the rounds I fire in self-defense will be rounds that I bought from a commercial manufacturer, and it wil be ammunition a law enforcement agency would issues it's officers.

Agreed. The first thing that came to mind was Scum Bag Lawyer popping in a copy of Death Wish 3 in front of the jury and showing the scene with Charles Bronson sitting at his kitchen table loading his own ammo. Then, SBG fast forwards (assuming this is a VHS copy) to the scene where Bronson whips out that friggin hand cannon and puts a round into the back of a mugger that robbed him.

If not for legal reasons, than merely from a ballistic standpoint as gumaro mentioned. The manufacturer factored in cavity design, how many grains of power is needed to get it up to speed enough to expand properly, reliable feeding, etc. If someone were to add an additional variable to the mix, it just may throw off the performance of the round and it may very well be just as bad as packing the cavity full of denim in the first place. Then again, you may have very well come up with a cheap alternative to commercial polymer tipped ammo, but for me there are just too many negatives involved.

 

[automatic slim]

Cor-Bon Pow'r ball........

I see that some of the manufactures are filling the hollow points with rubber or plastic to help them expand after going through heavy cloth. I was wondering why this would work better than the hollow filling up with cloth? Should I add some epoxy to my bullets or Goop?? Sounds like those should work just as well as the factory's solution.

I read on one site that the ball is pushed back into the bullet on impact, causing it to expand. Sounds good in theory.

 

[TedBeau]

The rubbery stuff in hornady's critical defense ammo actually does an even, controlled expansion and is supposed to provide reliable expansion.

From an engineering stand point, the company I work for does a lot of custom seals and components made out of urethane (rubber). the interesting thing about it is under pressure it acts like a fluid in that it is somewhat non-compressable. When rubber is compressed it wants to flow outward 90 degrees to the direction load is applied.
This makes the rubber insert press outward with a force near the force applied to the front surface of the plug. This causes the expansion of the bullet just as you get under hydrostatic expansion in a normal hollow point. Clothing does not expand laterally like rubber will.

 

[Superhouse 15]

A couple months ago there was an article in Shooting Times about a crime lab that tested ammo in the old days before high tech JHP. They added water and parafin to LSWCHP and got better expansion in water. Adding small "dum dum" cuts to the nose made for even better expansion. Based on that, your idea could be used to increase expansion, probably. Advisable, no, possible, sure.

 

[Ram Rod]

I see that some of the manufactures are filling the hollow points with rubber or plastic to help them expand after going through heavy cloth. I was wondering why this would work better than the hollow filling up with cloth? Should I add some epoxy to my bullets or Goop?? Sounds like those should work just as well as the factory's solution.

I have some 45acp rounds with primers embedded in the HP cavity. I've shot them into some materials that I won't mention here. Wow!
I would be willing to carry HP's with polymer or whatever in the hollow points.

 

[smotta]

I was also thinking that you could very easily through off the uniformity of the projectile if it was even microscopically unbalanced. With the rates those things come out you could wind up missing the target completely.

 

[razorblade]

I have some 45acp rounds with primers embedded in the HP cavity. I've shot them into some materials that I won't mention here.

I'm in a meeting now at work reading this on my laptop. I busted out laughing at the thought of a BG bursting like tomato when you shot him.

A couple of people gave me "the eye":twak:

 

[llongshot]

If you're interested in this sort of thing look into some of the modern FMJ loads. Just got through putting some Golden Sabre JHP and Winchester truncated cone/Keith semi wadcutter style FMJ through some materials I had around. The loads were 165 grain 10MM at about 1400 fps. The Golden Sabre was shot into six one gallon milk jugs lined up in a row to determine basic soft tissue performance. The hollowpoint expanded in the first jug and the jacket was stripped off the lead where the plastic layers were encountered at the first/second jug juncture. The lead was stopped by the plastic layers between the fourth and fifth jugs. The fifth jug was not punctured but was crushed/broken open by the impact. The fmj was shot into, in order, two inches of seasoned Hickory, three gallon milk jugs filled with water, and a 4"x8"x16" poured concrete block placed with the 4" edge on the bench. The fmj expanded in the Hickory, left the jacket in the milk jugs, and the lead hit the concrete block about three inches from the bottom with enough force to imbed a significant amount of lead in the concrete and to knock it off the bench. My observations? You might want to consider a good hp in summer and a good fmj in winter. Remember the hp isn't the only bullet that's come a long way in the last few years. The fmj has also evolved. And as an afterthought the jacket on the hp was about 3/4" in diameter. The lead from the fmj was about 1/2" when it contacted the concrete block. I can't help but believe the fmj load would be suitable for Black Bear. Hmmmm.....anyone know how thick the skull is on Grizz?

 

[GoldenSaber]

Uh.... I wouldn't ever modify ammo myself. Sounds like something Rambo might do. If you think you need goop in in the hollow point why not just buy it from the experts already doing it? Just my 2 cents.

 

[RETSUPT99]

I would NEVER modify any ammo...:nono:

 

[llongshot]

Did I mention that, normally, the fmj round is waaaaaaaaaay cheaper than the hp?

 

[Screwball216]

Well, to go back on subject…

CBP just moved to a modified Speer G2 from Winchester Ranger (both 147 grain).

The G2 have the bullets blackened, and the cavity is filled with wax. We had an officer that went to teach in VA, and he got them while down there.

We were told the black bullet was to make it easier to tell duty ammo is in the magazine. But the wax part was something I never heard about prior to seeing it.