Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 68 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone! First post and hopefully a good topic.

Let's say you have just succesfully defended yourself against an armed intruder, like in this thread. However, in this case the Bad Guy is not dead but instead is severely wounded. You have removed his weapon from his reach, ensured that he was alone and called 911.

Now then, do you sit there and watch him bleed to death or do you render first aid? Can you do that safely? Is he still a threat? What would the legal ramifications be?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
177 Posts
BassDaddy777 said:
Hi everyone! First post and hopefully a good topic.

Let's say you have just succesfully defended yourself against an armed intruder, like in this thread. However, in this case the Bad Guy is not dead but instead is severely wounded. You have removed his weapon from his reach, ensured that he was alone and called 911.

Now then, do you sit there and watch him bleed to death or do you render first aid? Can you do that safely? Is he still a threat? What would the legal ramifications be?
As an EMT, i can say that my safety comes first. No human life is worth mine, especially some scumbag. After the shoot i'm going to check for further threats then retreat to a position of safety.

Even when i'm on the ambulance, I will not pull onto a scene where a violent crime was comitted until the cops declare the scene secure. If someone has to bleed to death because of it, at least that person isn't me.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,833 Posts
Armed Intruder ~ Good First Thread

An armed intruder that is not dead and has only had his obvious, visible, weapon removed is still a deadly threat.
Our fantastic police, fire, & paramedic service are ULTRA FAST in my area.
God Bless Them ALL!
Calling 911 at my house will get our police at my front door within 3 minutes & usually quicker than that.
So...would I watch the wounded intruder bleed to death???...No...I would look the other way. :wink:
And...without gloves, facemask, & eye protection I am not catching possible A.I.D.S. from some spurting, bleeding, disarmed, good~for~nothing total stranger that just forced entry my castle to possibly kill me or a family member.
He can bleed until professional help gets here & his family can pay for my carpet replacement. Just my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
940 Posts
I'm likely not going to get close enough to kick the weapon out of the dude's hand if I don't have to. Either he'll remove it and throw it away willlingly, or he'll remain a threat.

As a threat exists, well, I can keep shooting, rendering aid something I'll worry about when I'm out of ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,352 Posts
No cant say as i would Im not trained to give aid and he still a threat till the police show up and take control of the whole deal.

Also are as a after thought is there anystate where it says you must provide First Aid ...

I know here if your are a DR/nurse you can be fined if you dont but a Normal untraind person like me i am not Required to render aid
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,050 Posts
In Virginia I'm not obligated to provide aid. Also I am not trained to provide aid. Our law protects me should I further harm someone if I am acting within the bounds of my first aid training. That stops at CPR.

So no I would not touch the BG. The police and rescue squad are exactly .6 miles from my house and will be here in a flash. I don't want the BG's attorney arguing that I further tried to injure his client while allegedly trying to render "first aid".

-Scott-
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,833 Posts
In Your Dreams........

Mouth To Mouth Resuscitation... :dead1: :ugh1: :arg:
I don't think you could ever be required to give medical aid or comfort to a "Down For The Count" Intruder/Attacker.
Damn...In the days of the "Old West" ya would just take his cowboy boots off...if they were NICER than the ones you were wearing...& be done with it. :biggrin:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
No way would I give the BG first aid. I just spent my time putting him down and he may still be a threat. Wait for the Good guys to get there and let them handle it. Would I watch him? You bet. Don't want him getting up and shooting me after I thought he was down for the count.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
Neat question.

Let's see, I just shot him due to fear for my life. Now, overcome with my love of humanity, I rush to his aid and use all my ability to save him...Not a Freakin' chance.

That would be a lawyers dream. "You see ladies and gentelmen of the jury, Mr. Dulee realized that he had no reason to shoot my client, who was simply lost and entered the wrong home by mistake. So Mr. Dulee, realizing his mistake, then attempted to redeem himself in the eyes of the law, by trying to apply first aid to my client. And furthermore, as we can all see by my clients neckbrace, wheelchair and oxygen mask he failed to render proper aid after unjustifibly shooting my poor client.".

Nope, he dies. The closest thing to medical action will be me getting a large bottle of hydrogen peroxide and rubber gloves to remove the blood from my floor, walls and clothing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I'm starting to see a trend here. :tongue:

Usually our imagined scenarios end with the BG getting shot and the Good Guys calling 911. But I doubt that it is that clean. Instead you have a total stranger, (or the kid nextdoor) lying on your floor moaning in agony as the both of you watch his life drain out. Whether he is still a threat or not is up to you.

Is letting him die that different from putting one between his eyes? At what point do we go from defender (of ourselves and loved ones) to executioner?

Would you be as concerned about catching something from the BG if he was a shooting victim instead of the villian?

Are we carrying these guns to stop the BG from causing harm or to clean the gene pool?


By the way, I am not a bleeding heart (pun intended :biggrin: ) but I had never really examined those hour long minutes while you are waiting for the Cavalry to arrive. I don't think I could sit and do nothing.

To know good and not do it, is the same as doing evil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
767 Posts
If you do not check for more threats and/or move to a more secure area from which to view your adversary, you may quickly share the same fate. Do not become complacent because the action has (temporarily?) ceased.
If you fired upon this person because you were in fear of YOUR life or that of your family's, risking yourself after the shoot seems a wasted endeavor. I do not think that rendering aid is appropriate for this situation. If he is still conscious, and that is likely from a handgun, and is begging for help, you may assure him law enforcement and medical experts are indeed on the way.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
115 Posts
I understand what you are asking, but if you do it right, they will only need to go straight to the morgue. If they survive, let the authorities deal with this criminal.

You are not an executioner if you kill them. Now if they are lying there in a pool of blood and you walk over and shoot them again, you will likely have some problems with the law. I will shoot them until they are no longer a threat, whether it takes 1 bullet or 12. Then when I'm sure for my safety and/or that of others, I will call 911 if I haven't already.

I don't plan on shooting them to slow them down or scare them. If I draw my weapon, it is because I am in fear for my life or that of another. If I fire, it is to kill, plain and simple.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,706 Posts
BassDaddy-
How many of our troops in Iraq have been killed/injured by "dead" wounded BGs??? Do you not think a domestic BG might play hurt worse than he is to gain the advantage??? I will seek a secure place to keep an eye on him until the sheriff's deputies arive, where I live that could be an hour, I'm not getting close enough to touch the SOB.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,008 Posts
Unless the BG is down and not moving he is still a threat. Especially if he is wounded /enraged. I will wait for the EMT's and PD to secure the BG.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
I train to stop a would be killer.

Stop means the would be killer is not moving. At all. I don't care if he is on the ground. If he's moving he's getting shot again. As far as I'm concerned he's reaching for a concealed weapon. Once that state is achieved I will call the authorities and try to keep my head about me.

Now to be clear if I shot someone 3 times and they fell down in a heap and weren't moving, I wouldn't shoot them again just to "be sure". I would step back and keep the gun trained on them however. If he is still alive, well I'm not a medical professional. I have no qualifications to help him.

If it's not his time, he will not die. God will decide if it is or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
I was bouncing this off of a friend of mine and he suggested throwing the bandages to the BG and let him do it himself.

"Hellooo. Yoohoo, Mr. Bad Guy. I see that you have several sucking chest wounds. Would you like a Band Aid?" :biggrin:

Why does this remind me of the Zulu skit on Monty Python?
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,833 Posts
BassDaddy:"Usually our imagined scenarios end with the BG getting shot and the Good Guys calling 911. But I doubt that it is that clean. Instead you have a total stranger, (or the kid nextdoor) lying on your floor moaning in agony as the both of you watch his life drain out. Whether he is still a threat or not is up to you."
I would never shoot the kid next door. Be aware of your intended target.

BassDaddy:"Is letting him die that different from putting one between his eyes? At what point do we go from defender (of ourselves and loved ones) to executioner? I shoot to stop an unavoidable threat to my life. I am not an executioner."
Yes it IS different, I am not an executioner either. I also don't tresspass OR break into innocent peoples houses fully armed intending and willing to inflict suffering on innocent people and I would not personally expect any Life Saving "First Aid" measures from my intended victim if I were a Bad Guy & I lost the fight.

BassDaddy:"Would you be as concerned about catching something from the BG if he was a shooting victim instead of the villian?"
Yes...but innocent victims are different than armed home invaders. I would carefully help an innocent victim. Attacker? Rapist?...Sorry!...You bleed without my help.

BassDaddy:"Are we carrying these guns to stop the BG from causing harm or to clean the gene pool?"
I carry my gun to STOP a BG from causing ME bodily harm. I shoot to stop & not to kill. The threat situation STOPS when the police arrive.
The idiots will clean themselves out of the gene pool without my help.


BassDaddy:"By the way, I am not a bleeding heart (pun intended ) but I had never really examined those hour long minutes while you are waiting for the Cavalry to arrive. I don't think I could sit and do nothing."
That's your personal decision. I sure hope your wounded guy does not "come around" & yank a little .25 out of his underwear & "cap your head" while you're busy French kissing him on the mouth.

BassDaddy:"To know good and not do it, is the same as doing evil."
Your rational thinking is slightly skewed with regard to that little quote.
It sounds like it makes sense but it's not reality based.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,017 Posts
LOL You know a long time ago a LA cop named Joseph Wambaugh wrote a book called THE BLUE KNIGHT and in one of the encounters he stumbles across a perp pimp/doper he knows and he's either been shot or badly stabbed and he gets this crazed idea. He appears to be rendering first aid for the benefit of the little old lady hovering nearby, but what he's REALLY doing is literally pumping the BGs heart dry. He pushes on the chest and a FOUNTAIN-like Spurt of blood erupts from the hole in the chest. It's so tall, he has to cover it with the pimp's hat. So the BG finally exsanguinates and the ME arrives on the scene and they're all standing around scratching their heads. Whispering that it looks like a VAMPIRE got to him....And here's this old veteran cop standing around trying to be helpful.....

Of course you call 911. That covers your butt in court. But I'm in agreement with the other guy who said that a home invader bent on murder or rape gets no extra care from me. I have no duty to render first aid but I'll call someone who does.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,044 Posts
I am going to have to agree with the majority here and say I would not render aid. I have not adequately trained to save the life of a shooting victim since military basic training. And, like someone else said I am not risking myself by coming in contact with his blood or any other bodily fluids. Then again, if I did have training, gloves and bandages, I still wouldn't do it. He is dangerous until he is either dead or the authorities search and handcuff him, which they will do whether he is alive or not. If he is dead, I will be waiting for the police outside. If he is alive, I will cover him until the police arrive and relieve me.
 
1 - 20 of 68 Posts
Top