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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all, I'm about to start a discussion that is not intended to be a CC vs. OC argument. Instead, it's all about rights - for us all.

Surely no one here wants to see people put in jail and/or fined for peacefully carrying a holstered pistol uncovered.

If you prefer CC-only for whatever reasons, but you love liberty to the point that you wish the government would leave us alone to OC or CC as we see fit, then you certainly have a place at the table in this discussion.

The way I read Florida law, only the pistol itself must be concealed: "conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person", quoting the statute.

That means a person can see a huge bulge under clothing, an outline, etc, but if the firearm itself is not seen, you are golden.

With the various tricks coming from Republicans in the Florida Senate that keep pro-liberty bills (open carry, campus carry, airport carry) from coming to the Senate floor (Google Diaz de la Portilla and Anitere Flores), people are getting fed up. Senate President Joe Negron not stepping in to correct the situation, as he has the authority to do, and Gov. Scott not tell them to stop the games and get it done, is frustrating.

Back in 1987 Janet Reno orchestrated a statewide ban on open carry in Florida. With a Republican majority in the Legislature for several years now, why hasn't this ban been over-turned?

Some people prefer open carry in the Florida heat, quicker access to their firearm in a real emergency, and the crime deterrence factor (most criminals after all, prefer easy targets). Some consider CC to have a better tactical advantage, and that's fine, too. No problem if you live and let live.

As each year passes, there are Internet news articles saying Florida is now more likely to get open carry because of "blah..blah..blah", but it never pans out.

Time to go beyond open carry fishing. It's now time to bring our protests mainstream and turn up the heat where it has never been before.

It's our First Amendment Right to peacefully make it known in public that we are armed. Again, if you prefer deep concealment, you can help forward progress towards liberty in other ways - and that will be appreciated. Join Florida Carry, for example. And call and write your lawmakers demanding the CHOICE to open carry or conceal carry without fear of being jailed.

But for those who really want to stick a big fat thumb in the eye of the hypocrite politicians who year after year manage to get A+ ratings from the NRA, but who maneuver to block the restoration of our rights, here's what you can do:

1. Wear your spare ammo carriers openly. Legal even when part of the magazines are visible.

2. Openly wear pistol-shaped holsters that close with a lid, fully concealing your handgun, such as the holster made for the P38 pistol that can hold most modern compact and sub-compact pistols. I bought one, and my Glock 23 almost fits in it - to give you an idea of what will fit in it. You can find them at Amazon.

3. Wear a cloth covering over your pistol that has a graphic picture or photo of a pistol that is worn over an outside-the-waistband holster, with a tucked in shirt that does not cover over the holster. Google the words: Texas, Glock, Sock - to see what I'm talking about.

4. Wear t-shirts with a picture of a pistol and words such as "Lawfully Armed", "Licensed & Carrying", etc.

Especially do these things on publicly owned property, where you cannot be ejected or trespassed merely for being lawfully armed such as at: public parks, public beaches, public libraries, public zoos, festivals and fairs held on public property, etc.

Wearing the items above on private property is also legal, but you do have to leave if asked, or risk a trespass arrest.

Florida keeps being on the edge of getting open carry legalized, but it hasn't happened because we haven't been loud enough. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Look at Texas. They were forbidden open carry of pistols, so they started carrying long guns openly, and they won their rights back. Unfortunately, you cannot generally carry loaded long arms in Florida.

I believe from the top down, Florida's government is primarily concerned with tourist dollars. It's an unfounded concern. Where are the tourists going to go when Florida gets open carry? To the 45 other states where open carry is legal?

Everyone can help by spreading the word (Facebook, Twitter, Blogs, Forums, calling radio shows, etc) to educate people on their First Amendment options above, if you want to see liberty restored in Florida. And I believe many do.

To be forced to pay for a license, to pay for government mandated training, then be told you can't legally carry openly, that you must hide the exercise of your bought and paid for "right", is simply disgusting, not to mention immoral. No other right is treated in that manner.

Our time has come, and we can win this thing!

Phillip Evans

Member Georgia Carry
Member Florida Carry
Member BamaCarry
Member Grass Roots North Carolina
 

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I do not live in FL, but wish the folks in FL the best on this. I live in a OC and CC state. While I prefer CC, I am all about freedom and sticking to the constitution.
 

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But for those who really want to stick a big fat thumb in the eye of the hypocrite politicians who year after year manage to get A+ ratings from the NRA, but who maneuver to block the restoration of our rights, here's what you can do:

1. Wear your spare ammo carriers openly. Legal even when part of the magazines are visible.

2. Openly wear pistol-shaped holsters that close with a lid, fully concealing your handgun, such as the holster made for the P38 pistol that can hold most modern compact and sub-compact pistols. I bought one, and my Glock 23 almost fits in it - to give you an idea of what will fit in it. You can find them at Amazon.

3. Wear a cloth covering over your pistol that has a graphic picture or photo of a pistol that is worn over an outside-the-waistband holster, with a tucked in shirt that does not cover over the holster. Google the words: Texas, Glock, Sock - to see what I'm talking about.

4. Wear t-shirts with a picture of a pistol and words such as "Lawfully Armed", "Licensed & Carrying", etc.

Especially do these things on publicly owned property, where you cannot be ejected or trespassed merely for being lawfully armed such as at: public parks, public beaches, public libraries, public zoos, festivals and fairs held on public property, etc.

Wearing the items above on private property is also legal, but you do have to leave if asked, or risk a trespass arrest.
My contribution to the discussion will be to merely say that "in your face" activism is the most unproductive method I can think of to achieve a political goal. I certainly support more liberty as opposed to less but I will not be any part of bravadoism that has to do with guns or being armed. I have given money to several organizations who have lobbists and I have written letters to my elected officials but I wont march around wearing a holster or waving a sign.
 

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My contribution to the discussion will be to merely say that "in your face" activism is the most unproductive method I can think of to achieve a political goal. I certainly support more liberty as opposed to less but I will not be any part of bravadoism that has to do with guns or being armed. I have given money to several organizations who have lobbists and I have written letters to my elected officials but I wont march around wearing a holster or waving a sign.
To which I can only say "Amen brother"! One person presenting an azzhat persona will do more damage than 10 of us can overcome.
 

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If more people would write or call the folks we've/they've voted into office the more we'd see getting done, at least that's what they told me when i called them.

Proverbs 15:1 A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
 

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Yea, lets scare the soccer moms to death.
Let's take up the LEO's time responding to the man with gun call's from those freaked out soccer mom's.
Let's just draw the ire from all the clueless onlookers.
Let's just get shoot me first tee shirts.

Nah, I'll have none of it. I'll do my deeds in private.
 

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Phillip, with all due respect, I would find your arguments more compelling if:

1) You were a full time voting resident of Florida;

2) You had a strong, first name basis with all of the Florida Gun Groups;

3) You had a first name relationship with your Florida Representative and Senator;

4) You were on a first name basis with the NRA-ILA's Lobbyist for Florida and were acting in concert with them and (2) above;

and

5) You are circumspect, respectful, and businesslike when conducting yourself with respect to (1) to (4) above.​


While you in fact may already have 1-5 above down cold, you need to get the political folks on line first. They are the ones you need.

The NRA, SAF, JPFO and the like have been incredibly effective in getting laws relaxed, changed, and concealed and open carry passed over the last 25 years. Let them use their experience help Florida residents.
 

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My contribution to the discussion will be to merely say that "in your face" activism is the most unproductive method I can think of to achieve a political goal. I certainly support more liberty as opposed to less but I will not be any part of bravadoism that has to do with guns or being armed. I have given money to several organizations who have lobbists and I have written letters to my elected officials but I wont march around wearing a holster or waving a sign.

I don't know, "in your face activism" has done wonders for certain groups of people. Now none of them will get out of our faces even though they got most of what they wanted.
 

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In my state, open carry is the normal mode of carrying a sidearm and requires no permit of any kind whereas concealing it requires permission from our employees in the form of a CHP (Concealed Handgun Permit). Open carry here causes no undue problems, no screaming children, no mothers grabbing their kids and fleeing McDonald's, and no slamming to the ground by our armed employees (police).

With that said, I have no idea what the social climate is in Florida regarding the carrying of sidearms, open or concealed, but I would hope it is largely friendly. If that is the case, moves to allow open carry may well have traction. If not, it's something on your wish list.
 

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My contribution to the discussion will be to merely say that "in your face" activism is the most unproductive method I can think of to achieve a political goal. I certainly support more liberty as opposed to less but I will not be any part of bravadoism that has to do with guns or being armed. I have given money to several organizations who have lobbists and I have written letters to my elected officials but I wont march around wearing a holster or waving a sign.
^^^Very well put!^^^
 
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My contribution to the discussion will be to merely say that "in your face" activism is the most unproductive method I can think of to achieve a political goal. I certainly support more liberty as opposed to less but I will not be any part of bravadoism that has to do with guns or being armed. I have given money to several organizations who have lobbists and I have written letters to my elected officials but I wont march around wearing a holster or waving a sign.
Well you are not quite up to the level of the original patriots who put their lives on the line to gain the freedoms like the keeping and Bearing of arms, but every little bit helps I suppose.
 
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Ironic isn't it? Our illegal Hispanic residents regularly protest for their right to BREAK the law, while our legal Florida citizens are forced to protest for their right to...UPHOLD the law. :blink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Rock and Glock,

And respect back to you, too. My arguments have nothing to do personally with me. I'm simply one person voicing the call to liberty.

But if you need personal creds, I am a dues paying member of Florida Carry, and I'm pretty sure their board members know me on a first name basis. However, I speak and write only as an individual.

Also, I've spent many unpaid (actually, none were paid) hours writing articles for Ammoland and other Internet news sites, as well as my own blog, posting on Facebook, posting on forums, emailing and calling Florida lawmakers, emailing law enforcement officials, emailing news media, making t-shirt graphics for free download, etc.

So I might be too bold to say that perhaps I've done more than the average member of most carry groups, and most likely more than the average licensed-to-carry citizen or Internet forum warrior. Is that good enough, or do I need to throw down a certain amount of tax dollars in order to advocate for enjoying my U.S. Constitutional Rights when I visit Florida?

While Florida Carry has not taken an official stance (yet) on carrying concealed out in the open, they do understand the law on the matter from the posts I have seen by board members.

As far as the "azzhat" comment another person made, I have always advocated being courteous to others in public, and not resisting police. I guess one person's freedom fighter is another person's "azzhat". Oh well, it takes all kinds.

The one comment someone made concerning a "shoot me first" shirt made me laugh out loud. In 45 states open carry is legal, and I haven't seen a rash of open carriers getting shot first.

And as for scaring "soccer moms" mentioned by another... In my home state of Georgia, I literally carry my actual sidearm in open view - not just showing my ammo carrier or closeable holster, or wearing an "Armed Citizen" t-shirt as is legal in Florida. I suppose I'm in danger of scaring them so much that soon OC'ing will be outlawed in Georgia, if I take the naysayers seriously.

And yes, "A soft answer turns away wrath" works in personal situations. What that has to do with peacefully using the First Amendment to protest and demand our rights back from government, I have no idea. We HAVE been asking pretty please, and getting nowhere fast.

Remember the news articles saying this is the year Florida will probably get open carry? It was because Senator Joe Negron became Senate President. He is known as a "libertarian Republican", who talks a good game of supporting our rights. But he is the one who appointed Turncoat Senator Anitere Flores to be his second in command!

And so far he continues to let things go the way they are without taking control, as he has the authority to do. He can put the pro-carry bills on the Senate floor now if he wanted to, and bypass the committee. Looks like they are making the same Portilla-play this year, since it worked so well for them last year.

But if doing the same things and getting the same results is working, then more power to those who feel that way. I suppose each of us will do what we feel best in any case.

There will always be those (seems to be a lot of them) who get heartburn or panic at the thought of even the most delicate rocking of the boat. I suppose extracting oneself completely from sheepdom is a difficult task, even for some gun owners.

I'm sure a lot of permit holders in Texas poo-pooed those who openly carried long guns to demand their right back to openly carry pistols, but now the same poo-pooers are enjoying the fruits of the labor of others who did what it took to get the job done.
 

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Back in 1987 Janet Reno orchestrated a statewide ban on open carry in Florida. With a Republican majority in the Legislature for several years now, why hasn't this ban been over-turned?

Phillip Evans
That's because your Florida republican politicians don't have any balls.
 

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I am sure if enough Florida voters/tax payers want open carry they will get it passed.
Ha. There are plenty here in FL that would like it but we have RINOs here that keep voting against what we want. They are obstructionists and don't care what the people want. Similar is the medical marijuana that WE the people voted for yet every county/city is applying their own rules and are hindering the process.
 

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I live in a state where OC is legal, but our state constitution allows different local governments to outlaw it as they seem fit.

A few years ago, a guy was walking around one of our local suburbs, open carrying, carrying a sign about how it was legal to OC and don't call the cops. Why he felt the need to do that is beyond me, as there was no type of OC controversy going on at the time. Contrary to the instructions on his sign, people called the cops. It made the news, all of which made sure to point out that what he was doing was indeed legal. A few days later, he was joined by more and more people who were also OC'ing, carrying similar signs.

Within 6 months, every local government in our metro area made it illegal to OC.

This is what "In your face" gets, IMHO. Had that original guy just went about his business, OC'ing, nobody would likely have cared or noticed. But for whatever reason he decided to draw attention to himself and the fact that he was armed, and now nobody gets to OC. "In your face" can be extremely obnoxious and off putting. It's not a very good way to win people over to your side, it works well to drive folks away.

Good luck with all that you do.
 

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I would really like to see open carry approved in Florida. I hike on the weekends and it's a pain carrying a concealed weapon with a backpack. The waist strap is a problem. It is just above the butt of the pistol and makes the gun easy to spot. If I put the pistol in the pack, I can't get to it without taking the pack off.
 
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