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One of the more credible arguments against 5.7mm was a lack of any real world shooting data for that caliber against real live breathing humans.

The FN 5.7 was "the" handgun in the recent Ft Hood tragedy.

In the hands of an apparent gun tyro, he was able to neutralize 40+ people in a short amount of time. And we are not talking average civilians that may not know what to do but soldiers that are used to bullets flying past them.

Please keep the flames to minimum. A tragedy is a tragedy I just wanted to look at the "how did he do it" aspect and learn from it what I could.

:flamethrow:

Ft. Hood Shootings | The day after the Ft. Hood tragedy | KXAN.com

Law enforcement officials said a 5.7-millimeter pistol used in the Fort Hood shooting rampage was purchased legally at a Texas gun store called "Guns Galore."

Records indicate that Nadil Malik Hasan, 39, bought the FN 5.7 at the store well before the attack that left 13 people dead. The pistol has been dubbed a "cop killer" by those who have tried to stop its use. The most powerful type of ammunition for the gun is available only to law enforcement and military personnel. The ammo has the ability to pierce bulletproof vests, but it is unclear at this time whether the bullets Hasan purchased had that capability.
 

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I'm not gonna comment except to say that I don't believe that calibre is any more effective than others,it comes down to shot placement and the fact any AP qualities wouldn't matter as nobody was wearing body armor
 

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I'm not gonna comment except to say that I don't believe that calibre is any more effective than others,it comes down to shot placement and the fact any AP qualities wouldn't matter as nobody was wearing body armor
Well said..... banning one weapon is just the tool to ban all weapons. The 5.7 just happened to be the weapon the moron picked......could as well have been any make, model, or caliber..........
 

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Any determined nut job who stays calm and picks his targets quickly
can kill and maim many innocent people.It seems once the lady
police officer came into the picture and exchanged fire hitting BG 4x
it helped slow him down.Guys like this, I wish the good guys would just
take them out,one to the head and call it a day.I get the feeling this guy
and any other killer that kills large numbers of people; the medical community
wants to study them to see what makes them tick.
 

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I've been wondering what the round of choice was in this tragedy. Now I know.
Please keep the flames to minimum. A tragedy is a tragedy I just wanted to look at the "how did he do it" aspect and learn from it what I could.
Same here, and I'm glad someone else launched this boat, because I'm always thinking that my inquiries might seem rather callous to some. It's also perplexing to me how to best defend against this somewhat rabid round, and it may make some choices for good cover obsolete in a way. Something like this really causes one to step back and re-assess what they've thought for a very long time. The only thing evil in a gun is the human behind it. May God save us all. My prayers go out to the victims and their families first and foremost.
 

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Records indicate that Nadil Malik Hasan, 39, bought the FN 5.7 at the store well before the attack that left 13 people dead.
This comment makes me wonder if this was something Hasan had been planning for some time.
 

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I believe that in the mind of the shooter, he had to see his fellow soldiers as the enemy. If he was surrounded by the enemy (of his mind) then he planned this and rehearsed it in his mind. His actions were deliberate and with out hesitation, this was pure premeditated mass murder preformed by a individual with a twisted since of righteousness. Murder is murder and no twisted religious code will change it to a righteous act.
 

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ICE, at least in MO, stopped using the 5.7 after a few months b/c they realized that while the round could penetrate vests, in human tissue it created the same wound as an icepick. Disclaimer: heard 2nd hand from someone who talked to a training officer, but it makes sense.
 

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I too was wondering which hand guns he used. I thought maybe a couple M9s.
 

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A report I heard mentioned Hasan reportedly gave away quite a few personal belongings....plus copies of the Koran....to his neighbors not long before the shootings took place....things that, to me, would be a "red flag" that something wasn't "quite right " with this picture...!!
Of course, just giving stuff away is not an automatic precursor to the mayhem that ensued...it's just too bad someone wasn't able to "connect-the-dots" to this puzzle sooner....
If Hasan dies...we'll probably NEVER know what set him off...
BTW...the convenience store video showing Hasan in Muslim garb....is another real "head-scratcher"...
 

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I just now heard some talking head dufus on ABC say this pistol is known as "the cop killer" and "it fires off rounds faster than you can pull the trigger" I kid you not.

:aargh4::aargh4::aargh4::aargh4::aargh4:
 

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A 22 would be just as effective for murdering unarmed people. The Va. Tech shooter used a Walther 22. We should focus on what we, the good guys, need to use to quickly incapacitate one of these SOB's.
 

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I just now heard some talking head dufus on ABC say this pistol is known as "the cop killer" and "it fires off rounds faster than you can pull the trigger" I kid you not.

:aargh4::aargh4::aargh4::aargh4::aargh4:
Considering ABC's history of anti-gun hysteria, you would expect anything else from them?
 

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Well, when you have a crowded room chock full of 500 unarmed people and you send 100+ bullets flying out in their direction - the law of averages is that some of those people are going to die and some are going to get critically wounded no matter what exact firearm or caliber is used to do the dirty deed.
 

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Shoot a bb fast enough and it could be effective, I guess. The round seems to be gaining credibility. It's on my list for consideration given the light recoil (control ability) and capacity.

God help the souls of the victims.
 

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I just now heard some talking head dufus on ABC say this pistol is known as "the cop killer" and "it fires off rounds faster than you can pull the trigger" I kid you not.

:aargh4::aargh4::aargh4::aargh4::aargh4:
That's because "GUNS KILL PEOPLE"!!!
They unholster themselves, aim themselves....and pull their own triggers....They have a mind of their own!!
Yeah...it's true....the "Brady Bunch" wouldn't lie to me.....:mad::mad:
 

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Shoot a bb fast enough and it could be effective, I guess. The round seems to be gaining credibility. It's on my list for consideration given the light recoil (control ability) and capacity.

God help the souls of the victims.
I've not tried this pistol/cartridge personally. Reviews I've read indicate that the pistol is on the large side for concealed carry - it wasn't really designed for that. It also seems to be a loud round, with a lot of flash. This makes sense, as the round was originally designed for the longer barrel of a PDW (Personal Defense Weapon) carbine, for troops who don't normally carry a rifle. Out of the shorter pistol barrel, you get lots of noise and light.

If the 5.7 bullets tumble, like the lighter 5.56's tend to do, and fragment - then the 5.7 has the capacity of producing some tremendous wounds, out of all proportion to its diameter. Not sure if this is the case. If they do not tumble, then I would tend to stick with more common handgun calibers.

Obviously, if the hits are to vital areas, these rounds can kill.:mad:

It will be interesting to see if we get the predictable calls to ban this round. Not the kind of publicity FN wanted, I'm sure.

Prayers to the victims.:frown:
 

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Have you ever seen a 5.7 bullet? They are tiny bottle nosed cartridges with a bullet not much bigger than a pencil tip. IMHO tumbling and fragmentation of a 5.7 bullet are not going to cause tremendous damage. I think the effectiveness of this round is almost solely a factor of the extremely high kinetic energy with which it hits a target.

The wikipedia article compares the energy to that of 9x19:
5.7x28mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I speculate that the rounds used if they came from a 5.7x28 were probably either ss195 or ss197 (28 and 40 gr respectively). The ss190 is already banned for commercial sales and is probably the most effective round in this caliber. The ss192 has also been discontinued and was considered a "good" round.

I speculate that 5.7 rounds would tend to over penetrate and and leave narrow wound channels but that the transfer of kinetic energy would also leave necrotic tissue around the wound channel. Penetration in ballistic gelatin is around 10 inches:

Ballistic gelatin test results : 5.7x28mm (PS90 and 5.7) heavy clothing test - THR

The FN 5.7 is very light, it looks and feels like a toy. Most people agree that the recoil is controllable permitting rapid follow up shots. If I recollect correctly then the magazines hold 20 rounds.

Although I certainly would not want to get shot with one, this would not be my first choice for a self defense pistol.
 

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Thanks for the tests. Seems to fail to meet the FBI penetration standards. Not my choice for a defensive pistol either.

Might explain why this terrorist had more wounded than killed at Ft Hood?
 
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