I was just wondering why Kimber is going back to the internal extractor ?? I have a UC CDP II (w/ int ext)and absolutely love it.My feelings on this matter is that they have had way too many of their ext. ext's sent back to them with FTF's and FTE's. This is what I'm hearing on other parts of the net. I also wonder what their OFFICIAL comment is as to their switching back. IMO it was a giant FUBAR to go to the ext. ext. but their are lots of other weapons that function great having this setup. Am just wondering if any of you out their have been in contact with Kimber ref. this. I will give it a few days and give them a call if nobody has heard anything. How many of you Kimber shooters have a great weapon vs. a not so great one ?? --------
For You Kimber Guys(and Gals)
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Too many FTEs with the external extractors...........Plus, negative comments on what the guns look like is helping to bring back the internal extractors. They kinda take away from the lure of the 1911.
Customers always remark about this feature (or FUBAR) on the Kimbers.. Most want the guns looking like 1911s and not something else. Gun Makers today are VERY concious about what the Public perceives as a good gun........or a real POS..might cost the Company millions, in either lawsuits, or sales..
BTW my PRO CDP has the internal extractor and it works excellent..........
Customers always remark about this feature (or FUBAR) on the Kimbers.. Most want the guns looking like 1911s and not something else. Gun Makers today are VERY concious about what the Public perceives as a good gun........or a real POS..might cost the Company millions, in either lawsuits, or sales..
BTW my PRO CDP has the internal extractor and it works excellent..........
Im not a kimber Guru but i love the 1911 design and am up on it fairly well. I think you hit it to many problems and visits home to the factory..
Also i think the External extractor on a 1911 is the answer to Question no one asked
Kimber hasnt figured it out but Smith did course Smith has been using a external extractor for years on there autos.
Now look at the Swartz(sp) Safety that kimber also uses Colt couldnt ever get it to work right but Kimber seems to have worked out most the bugs Colt gave up on it in the 30's
I would prefer a internal extractor but i think if they kept working at it or copyed the smith version it would work right ..
My 1911SC with extractor worked perfectly with the extraction system.
now if they go to internal and it seems to be back to there old Quailty i might just buy a Mimber i mean Kimber:image035:
Also i think the External extractor on a 1911 is the answer to Question no one asked
Kimber hasnt figured it out but Smith did course Smith has been using a external extractor for years on there autos.
Now look at the Swartz(sp) Safety that kimber also uses Colt couldnt ever get it to work right but Kimber seems to have worked out most the bugs Colt gave up on it in the 30's
I would prefer a internal extractor but i think if they kept working at it or copyed the smith version it would work right ..
My 1911SC with extractor worked perfectly with the extraction system.
now if they go to internal and it seems to be back to there old Quailty i might just buy a Mimber i mean Kimber:image035:
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Funny ain't it - externals on 1911 clones have seemingly never been 100%. And yet re something like my SIG's - external is just dandy.
Much I guess has to do with original design criteria but as we know, broadly - JMB new best all the time :smile:
Much I guess has to do with original design criteria but as we know, broadly - JMB new best all the time :smile:
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Well were to start!
Kimber had 4 designs of their version of the external extractor, I finally thought they had it fixed in the last run of extractors or the "4th" try, but at that point pretty much all faith was lost in the design with the buying public. Owners that sent their gun's in more than one time for the latest design of the extractor! some/most to no avail and the Kimber customer would finally get upset with it and eventually sell or trade the gun off. This caused even more of a problem! due to the gun is still not fixed and does not work properly and now it is in the open market with some unsuspecting newbie that is looking for a used 1911 for a good price. Now! Kimber has another customer with the same gun and same problem and are taking heat on forum's and over the phone from customer's.
The problem's were for the most part mostly found in the less than full size Kimber's and to be fair the majority of gun's produced with EE's were good but to a high percentage of gun's had problems according to Kimber and the buying public. This is why all the design changes! The problem was with the hook and Kimber could never figure out a way to get it to run as good as the internal design.
Kimber will not comment on the change back to the internal extractor and have not made it public or admitted the change yet, but new shipment's to dealer's prove that the internal's are back. I love that it look's as if Kimber has changed back to the internal design! the one that work's best for them. Another problem with the EE's is that with the cheaper mag's Kimber send's with the gun's the EE's also had FTF and FTE problems now with the EE design. A lot of times if the e-extractor was good in the gun a simple mag change would fix the feeding problem easy enough though.
I would agree that it was a big FUBAR by Kimber, I don't think they did the proper testing of the design before marketing it, I am sure there are demotions in the company due to the design flaw.
Kimber's are good gun's, they have the best high production slide to frame fit that forced other companies to get better in their tolerances and the product they send out the door.
Now that they seem to have made the change back to the internal design I wouldn't hesitate on buying one now if in the market. New Kimber with IE in it, a change to the Wilson or Tripp Cobra mag's equals a happy customer.
Ti.
Kimber had 4 designs of their version of the external extractor, I finally thought they had it fixed in the last run of extractors or the "4th" try, but at that point pretty much all faith was lost in the design with the buying public. Owners that sent their gun's in more than one time for the latest design of the extractor! some/most to no avail and the Kimber customer would finally get upset with it and eventually sell or trade the gun off. This caused even more of a problem! due to the gun is still not fixed and does not work properly and now it is in the open market with some unsuspecting newbie that is looking for a used 1911 for a good price. Now! Kimber has another customer with the same gun and same problem and are taking heat on forum's and over the phone from customer's.
The problem's were for the most part mostly found in the less than full size Kimber's and to be fair the majority of gun's produced with EE's were good but to a high percentage of gun's had problems according to Kimber and the buying public. This is why all the design changes! The problem was with the hook and Kimber could never figure out a way to get it to run as good as the internal design.
Kimber will not comment on the change back to the internal extractor and have not made it public or admitted the change yet, but new shipment's to dealer's prove that the internal's are back. I love that it look's as if Kimber has changed back to the internal design! the one that work's best for them. Another problem with the EE's is that with the cheaper mag's Kimber send's with the gun's the EE's also had FTF and FTE problems now with the EE design. A lot of times if the e-extractor was good in the gun a simple mag change would fix the feeding problem easy enough though.
I would agree that it was a big FUBAR by Kimber, I don't think they did the proper testing of the design before marketing it, I am sure there are demotions in the company due to the design flaw.
Kimber's are good gun's, they have the best high production slide to frame fit that forced other companies to get better in their tolerances and the product they send out the door.
Now that they seem to have made the change back to the internal design I wouldn't hesitate on buying one now if in the market. New Kimber with IE in it, a change to the Wilson or Tripp Cobra mag's equals a happy customer.
Ti.
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615 Posts
I have a Kimber Eclipse Pro II (4" model). With some initial breakin problems that didn't go away, Kimber replaced the external extractor and a couple other bits....I fired probably 2500 rds thru it, then the darn extractor broke. Kimber replaced it quickly and I haven't had a problem since. I love the gun and it is very accurate. I would buy it again, but the internal extractor design is most comforting.
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132 Posts
I have a Kimber Custom CDP II with an ext. extractor (in my avatar), SS Colt Commander, and Para Tac Four. After an initial problem with the slide locking open on a partial mag (took the 'smith 30 sec. to fix with a jeweler's file). I have cycled approx. 1200 rds. through the CDP II since. Only 2 stovepipes, no more than the Colt, which I shoot every time I shoot the CDP II. This may be attributed to "limp wristing" and some fouling as both occured near the end of a 200 rd session. I trust these 2 (Kimber and Colt) as my everyday carry weapons. Now the Para is another story, I just can't seem to get comfortable with this shooter, grip too large, and it's heavy.
Kimber's new Raptor and Pro Raptor have the external ext. and they are new models. I wonder if this is a extractor spring problem?
Kimber's new Raptor and Pro Raptor have the external ext. and they are new models. I wonder if this is a extractor spring problem?
I have two Kimbers. One, the Gold Combat is hitting 15,000 rounds. It has had one problem, it didn't feed one round. A quick change of the magazine and she was good to go. Wilson replaced that magazine in two days. Its an older version, no series ll and yes, an internal extractor. The other one is a newer one, Pro Carry HD ll but with the internal as well. I like the Kimbers but I wouldn't buy one until they replaced the external extractor. I guess they wanted my business, lol. That one only has 500 rds, but those were without problems as well. The series ll, hasn't been an issue for me, but I'd prefer that they lost that too.
Good Shooting.
Good Shooting.
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Woah! That Gold combat has some mileage on her, that's good to hear. I'm a Kimber guy too! they are a great gun's when with the IE and Wilson or Cobra mag's are used and I prefer the pre series II models also but to be honest Kimber actually got the Schwartz safety right when no one else could.TN Eleven said:
So with the seemingly return of IE's from all report's has brought me back to buying Kimber's again. MIM part's do not bother me to much either, the quality of MIM that Kimber uses I think is very good and I have yet to have a problem MIM part. Although I change part's sometimes just because.
Your 15,000 rounds through your Gold combat seem's to say a lot about the quality of MIM part's, I have wondered about the extractor's holding up to that many round's being MIM.
I will have a new Kimber model with an IE within the next couple months, possibly the Pro Carry HD II in 38 super or something else or if I find a used pre series II model in a dealers case I will take that home.
Thank's for reporting on your Gold Combat, those reports are good to hear.
Ti.
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151 Posts
Not always a Kimber problem
I understand that a lot of people have had problems with FTE with the new external extractor used on many new Kimber 1911s. And Kimber has made a few changes to the shape of the external extractor and in some cases the change has solved the users FTE problems. But IMHO many times it's really not always the external extractor that is to blame.
As anyone who understands the design of a 1911 already knows it was designed as a full sized 5 inch firearm designed to fire 230gr FMJ Ball Ammo. And the full sized Kimbers have the best user satisfaction rate because of the timing rate and spring rate is where the 1911 was designed at. Now along come the smaller Kimber 1911s the 3" and 4" models they both have a design that differs from the full sized Kimber 1911s both 3"&4" use a different recoil spring design and a different timing rate. And the smaller Kimber 1911s have the poorest user satisfaction rate of all the Kimber 1911s.
Its my thinking that many times the people who buy the smaller and sometime even the full sized Kimbers are having the FTF and FTE problems because they don't fully understand how the firearm really works and how they must maintane a 1911 they don't keep enough oil on the slide and frame and they don't hold the firearm firmly meaning they limp wrist when firing. Also many do not use a quality magazine.
I only use Wilson Combat or MetalForm Mags. I won't use the factory magazine shipped with the Kimber 1911s. Another major problem is people not changing the recoil springs when they need changing. It's not a major problem with the full sized 5" Kimbers but it's a real major item with the 4". Both the 5"&4" springs are not expensive or are they difficult for the average 1911 shooter to change.
The Kimber manual gives 800 the number rounds fired that the 4" recoil spring should be changed. The Kimber manual gives 1800 the number of rounds fired that the recoil spring should be changed for the 3" this Kimber has a two spring assembly that is locktighed togather I highly recommend buying and extra spring assembly as this will give you a carry set and a range set.
If you send the old spring Assy. to the Kimber Custom Shop with a check for $25 they will rebuild the unit and send it back. Another Item Kimber is not recalling all external extractor 1911s and they still are installing them on many of their Kimber 1911s. I know they have replaced some slides with the old internal extractor to solve what ever problem the user might or might think theyhave.
From what I have been told the external extractors are more costly for Kimber to Mfg. and this might have a lot of bearing on why they are using the older extractor design again. I do know many have the newer external extractor I have two a 3" and 4" and they have worked great. I also have a 5" with the internal extractor and it works great Many other firearm companies use external extractors on their firarms and they have for many years .
Another item I would like to address is the type of Ammo used in the smaller 1911s They work best with a rounded nose bullet I have found they don't like a flat nosed design type bullet like found on the Corbon JHP. My test of a 1911 is if will fire the Remington GoldenSaber 230gr JHP without FTF or FTE problems it's good to go. That is my standard for testing my 1911s.
Since Kimbers are not sloppy slide to frame fitted 1911s a normal breakin is needed I would not worry about a few FTF or FTE problems at range untill I have fired 500 rounds of 230gr FMJ Ball Ammo.
Keep you'r Kimber well oiled I use Breakfree CLP give the slide a shot every 100 rounds during a range shoot. I know others might not agree with what I have posted but having three Kimbers 3"4"&5" I know what has worked for this Kimber user.
I understand that a lot of people have had problems with FTE with the new external extractor used on many new Kimber 1911s. And Kimber has made a few changes to the shape of the external extractor and in some cases the change has solved the users FTE problems. But IMHO many times it's really not always the external extractor that is to blame.
As anyone who understands the design of a 1911 already knows it was designed as a full sized 5 inch firearm designed to fire 230gr FMJ Ball Ammo. And the full sized Kimbers have the best user satisfaction rate because of the timing rate and spring rate is where the 1911 was designed at. Now along come the smaller Kimber 1911s the 3" and 4" models they both have a design that differs from the full sized Kimber 1911s both 3"&4" use a different recoil spring design and a different timing rate. And the smaller Kimber 1911s have the poorest user satisfaction rate of all the Kimber 1911s.
Its my thinking that many times the people who buy the smaller and sometime even the full sized Kimbers are having the FTF and FTE problems because they don't fully understand how the firearm really works and how they must maintane a 1911 they don't keep enough oil on the slide and frame and they don't hold the firearm firmly meaning they limp wrist when firing. Also many do not use a quality magazine.
I only use Wilson Combat or MetalForm Mags. I won't use the factory magazine shipped with the Kimber 1911s. Another major problem is people not changing the recoil springs when they need changing. It's not a major problem with the full sized 5" Kimbers but it's a real major item with the 4". Both the 5"&4" springs are not expensive or are they difficult for the average 1911 shooter to change.
The Kimber manual gives 800 the number rounds fired that the 4" recoil spring should be changed. The Kimber manual gives 1800 the number of rounds fired that the recoil spring should be changed for the 3" this Kimber has a two spring assembly that is locktighed togather I highly recommend buying and extra spring assembly as this will give you a carry set and a range set.
If you send the old spring Assy. to the Kimber Custom Shop with a check for $25 they will rebuild the unit and send it back. Another Item Kimber is not recalling all external extractor 1911s and they still are installing them on many of their Kimber 1911s. I know they have replaced some slides with the old internal extractor to solve what ever problem the user might or might think theyhave.
From what I have been told the external extractors are more costly for Kimber to Mfg. and this might have a lot of bearing on why they are using the older extractor design again. I do know many have the newer external extractor I have two a 3" and 4" and they have worked great. I also have a 5" with the internal extractor and it works great Many other firearm companies use external extractors on their firarms and they have for many years .
Another item I would like to address is the type of Ammo used in the smaller 1911s They work best with a rounded nose bullet I have found they don't like a flat nosed design type bullet like found on the Corbon JHP. My test of a 1911 is if will fire the Remington GoldenSaber 230gr JHP without FTF or FTE problems it's good to go. That is my standard for testing my 1911s.
Since Kimbers are not sloppy slide to frame fitted 1911s a normal breakin is needed I would not worry about a few FTF or FTE problems at range untill I have fired 500 rounds of 230gr FMJ Ball Ammo.
Keep you'r Kimber well oiled I use Breakfree CLP give the slide a shot every 100 rounds during a range shoot. I know others might not agree with what I have posted but having three Kimbers 3"4"&5" I know what has worked for this Kimber user.
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13,117 Posts
I don't know if the exernal extractor is the problem or a Kimber problem. I've used external extractors (Caspian slides) on full size and one Commander size I've built for myself and yet to have a problem with them.
I went to the external because I was hearing about problems with the internal extractors, especially tension issues that we often hear as "tuned" extractors. The external extractor requires no tuning.
I went to the external because I was hearing about problems with the internal extractors, especially tension issues that we often hear as "tuned" extractors. The external extractor requires no tuning.
I have a tactical custom II and after the first 50 rounds have only had one fte. I love the gun. The finish stinks. The finish on the EE was not good brand new and now less than 1 year of owning it the slide is showing wear. I don't carry regularly. I think that it is sad that the finish is showing signs of wear. Should I send it back to Kimber and expect them to fix it.
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1911 Nut said:
Good luck with getting Kimber to fix finish wear.
Carry guns wear, that's what they do. A carry piece is a tool. It's a Kimber, not the best and not the worst, it's just a Kimber. Don't worry about it, holster wear gives a gun (the tool) a classic look.
Ti.
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6,749 Posts
Kimber's finish has always been on the thin side..:frown: rememeber,,, Bluing is only a coating, and unfortunatly, it's going to wear. :yup:1911 Nut said:
Your weapon's finish will last longer if you invest in a lined holster.. Just a few bits of info.. :biggrin2:
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