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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I open carry in my home town about a quarter of the time and no one bats and eye at it. A few months ago when I went into a local convenience store the lady ringing me up looked down at it several times and then asked me, "why do you carry a gun?" and I replied, "because it's easier than carrying a police officer." She had a good laugh, we chatted a little about open and concelaed carry laws and I told her, "when I'm in here, you don't have to worry about getting jacked up." Now we talk when I come in and it's all cool. She knows I'm a law abiding citizen carrying all the time whether its visable or not and she is comfortable with me. She asked me one time why I open carried sometimes since I have a CCP and I said, "if there's a guy waiting around the corner of the building looking for someone to jack up when they come out of the store, is he going to choose me if he sees it or pass me up for an easier target?" She said, "good point."
 

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The issue I have with OC, is this: Let's say you're in that store chatting up the cashier girl, and someone has a hidden weapon with ill intent. Who is going to get one in the back of the head first? The response would be, "Well i have situational awareness, and I don't let people sneak up on me." I have brothers in arms that were popped in the back of the head in the middle of Baghdad, where situational awareness is paramount. I choose to be the least suspicious person to the bad guy, and if he wants to cause a ruckus, well, I've got a surprise for him. Not that I'm dogging you for OC, I applaud you for it. I just think the idea of being seen with a firearm as a deterrent is fallacious. Kind of like the CC saying, "Well, when I pull my gun, it will dissuade the bad guy."
 

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Good point. It's one of those two-edged swords...The advantage he has in a convenience store is there's only one way in and out...If he's on top of his game, he'll spot anyone before they enter the store and possibly stand where his weapon can't be seen...But standing at the counter chatting up the cashier and not keeping your head on a swivel can be a death sentence....

If we had it in Tx, there would be times I might OC, but not many...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good point. I had not thought of it that way. It could make you the first target rather than the passed target. There is defensive merit to the old key military strategy: always maintain the element of surprise. I appreciate the insight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
PS. In this situation, I was the only person in the store or I would not have been discussing it with her. I had my Ruger P95 in the truck and its too big for a pocket. I just bought the PT709 slim 9mm and have a couple S&W snub 38s, so concealed will likely be my ongoing preference.
 

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Just be careful leaving a handgun in a vehicle without a means of solidly securing it, like a safe of some sort, bolted to the metal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have to leave mine in the car at work, but I keep a cable lock under the seat and lock it to the seat frame in such a manner that it can't be easily stolen or fired inside my car if they get pissed that they can't steal it. That day, the P95 was all I had with me and no coat in summer so I put it holstered on my belt and went in OC. I could have put it IWB without a holster and covered it with my shirt I guess, just didn't think about it.
 

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The issue I have with OC, is this: Let's say you're in that store chatting up the cashier girl, and someone has a hidden weapon with ill intent. Who is going to get one in the back of the head first? The response would be, "Well i have situational awareness, and I don't let people sneak up on me." I have brothers in arms that were popped in the back of the head in the middle of Baghdad, where situational awareness is paramount. I choose to be the least suspicious person to the bad guy, and if he wants to cause a ruckus, well, I've got a surprise for him. Not that I'm dogging you for OC, I applaud you for it. I just think the idea of being seen with a firearm as a deterrent is fallacious. Kind of like the CC saying, "Well, when I pull my gun, it will dissuade the bad guy."



maybe you will get one in the back of the head just because your first in line?? in VA just a little while ago a man was OC was passed by the robber and ended up getting shot by the OC'er guess its a flawed perception eh?
 

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maybe you will get one in the back of the head just because your first in line?? in VA just a little while ago a man was OC was passed by the robber and ended up getting shot by the OC'er guess its a flawed perception eh?
Perhaps. Human Behavior is often unpredictable. However, typically, when a criminal commits a violent act, they will take out the person who offers them the highest threat first. Wouldn't you? I am simply stating that I choose not to offer the bait.
 

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Perhaps. Human Behavior is often unpredictable. However, typically, when a criminal commits a violent act, they will take out the person who offers them the highest threat first. Wouldn't you? I am simply stating that I choose not to offer the bait.
If a BG has his weapon out, willing to use it and you try to pull your concealed weapon and he spots you, you will definitely be the one getting shot first. If he were "in that store chatting up the cashier girl, and someone has a hidden weapon with ill intent," he might be the one to get "shot in the back of the head first". I am also sure, that she would be the one to get shot in the face second.
Why would one bother to leave any witnesses? What would be the difference between one body or two? I think most any criminal would just wait until he sees the person with a weapon leave and then rob the store, or just come back later, if they are that desperate. Is that not more plausible.
These guys that are out to rob places are trying to get their money and leave. Most would not want to get into a confrontation. You seem to be under the impression that you will be targeted for your weapon. If someone is willing to kill people in a robbery, I don't think that they will pick certain people. I believe that everyone in the immediate area will be targeted. Your open or hidden weapon would probably not do you any good, in this case.
Most criminals that rob convenience stores are not looking that far ahead. Your scenario is geared more towards a spree killing. In those cases, the criminal does not care if you have a gun or not. They will kill everyone in sight and then kill themselves, or shoot it out with police in the hopes of being killed. Even armed, the best of us could be caught off guard. There are plenty of memorials across the country to prove that.
 

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That 'stop & rob' deserves your business...sounds like a reasonable lady. Now you have to get HER to understanding the importance of being prepared.:rolleyes::hand10:
 

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But standing at the counter chatting up the cashier and not keeping your head on a swivel can be a death sentence....
So the OC guy has to have his head on a swivel and look paranoid all of the time....hahahahah. :embarassed:

I guess if he was CC he could chat someone up, make eye contact with them, and act as a normal human being.

:gah:
 

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The issue I have with OC, is this: Let's say you're in that store chatting up the cashier girl, and someone has a hidden weapon with ill intent. Who is going to get one in the back of the head first? The response would be, "Well i have situational awareness, and I don't let people sneak up on me." I have brothers in arms that were popped in the back of the head in the middle of Baghdad, where situational awareness is paramount. I choose to be the least suspicious person to the bad guy, and if he wants to cause a ruckus, well, I've got a surprise for him. Not that I'm dogging you for OC, I applaud you for it. I just think the idea of being seen with a firearm as a deterrent is fallacious. Kind of like the CC saying, "Well, when I pull my gun, it will dissuade the bad guy."

Please quote one verified instance of this happening in the US. Many of us have been asking for this when people bring up the "possibility" but as yet no one has ever been able to produce a single incident.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Wow...a lot of good discussion. She just thought my comeback was funny when I said carrying a gun was easier than carrying a police officer. I mostly CC but OC "occasionally" when I go to the garage to work on cars (away from my house) and because Virginia Law requires open carry only in places that serve alcohol for consumption on premesis. I do choose many restaurants that do not serve alcohol for that reason. I also choose to not shop at places with posted no weapons signs. The night I stopped by this store, I had the full size 9mm because I was on my way to the garage, it's in a bad part of downtown and I stay late a lot, and it has a high capacity. There are many pros and cons to OC or CC. Everyone has to consider them all and decide for themselves. You can't anticipate every scenario, there will be surprises somewhere along the line.
 

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I would bet that a lot of BG's also suffer from tunnel vision when getting ready to rob a place, from being under stress. It is possible they are fixated on the cashier and not customers.
 

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The issue I have with OC, is this: Let's say you're in that store chatting up the cashier girl, and someone has a hidden weapon with ill intent. Who is going to get one in the back of the head first? The response would be, "Well i have situational awareness, and I don't let people sneak up on me." I have brothers in arms that were popped in the back of the head in the middle of Baghdad, where situational awareness is paramount. I choose to be the least suspicious person to the bad guy, and if he wants to cause a ruckus, well, I've got a surprise for him. Not that I'm dogging you for OC, I applaud you for it. I just think the idea of being seen with a firearm as a deterrent is fallacious. Kind of like the CC saying, "Well, when I pull my gun, it will dissuade the bad guy."
Please quote one verified instance of this happening in the US. Many of us have been asking for this when people bring up the "possibility" but as yet no one has ever been able to produce a single incident.
Majorlk beat me to it............I can't find ANY instances of that happening!

It's just like the so called 'shoot me first vests'.....BGs don't notice.
 

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Sounds like you guys argue about this a lot. I was merely posting my thinking on the subject, not trying to write a doctoral dissertation with references and such. Heck, I'm not even trying to change anyone's mind about anything, just offering a perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Lots of valid points to ponder on both sides of the issue. Each individual has to decide their preference (OC vs. CC) for themselves based on various factors, such as state laws, for any given circumstance. I carry both ways depending on situations. I don't think there's any right or wrong, just individual preference. I was just sharing my creative comeback to her question. I never put that much thought into the subject...perhaps I should...all good things to consider.
 
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