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Discussion Starter #1
Physical actions, catching a football, hitting a golf ball, drawing a firearm all take a series of physical movements that are consistant to that action.
Drawing a pistol has movements that are not consistant of anything else under the circumstances.
Seeing and recognizing these movements you do not have to wait and see the gun to draw yourself.
But, you should prepare to act, not fire until you see the gun. Of course if someone is combining physical acts with shouting threats that would increase the probality of just cause.
I bring this up because one of the key questions in LFI I, II, and III is to C Y A, Can You Articulate your actions.

Which physical movements do you see that indicate a person is drawing a gun? (or any other weapons)
 

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This one is a tad tricky, because the "mere" drawing of a gun might not
be an indication of jeopardy absent other threatening behavior or comments.

The act might only be due to a "clothing malfunction."
 

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Retrieving a cell phone that's clipped to the back of a belt can look very much like a draw. With the same motion that I take my wallet out of my breast pocket of a suit jacket, I could produce a pistol from a shoulder-carry. However, I think your point here is that your SA should pick up on something like that? Absolutely! Draw my weapon in response? I hope not!
 

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Draw my weapon in response? I hope not!
I will take issue with this statement.

The totality of the circumstances has to be taken into account. If you are standing in line at the local "Stop & Rob" with soda in hand, waiting to pay, then I would agree with you. If however you are walking up to me on the city street in an aggressive manner saying, "What time is it?" and have a target fixated look, I would hope so.

The "What time is it?" line is a great prelude to a mugging. It forces you to take your eyes off the attacker and distracts you. There is no simple answer to this question, because it's not a simple situation. Location, time, who is involved, words spoken, actions seen or perceived, all play a part in what would influence you, or anyone else, as to how they would respond.

FWIW: If I'm not at work I very seldom wear a watch. If you ask me that question I will most likely tell you, "I don't know and I don't care." while continuing about my business.

Biker
 

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Without any type of threat just somebodys hand movements would never justify drawing your weapon,what that will get you is arrested for brandishing,there are many factors involved in whether to draw or not,location,threat,fear for life
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Great point, awareness, now when do you decide to draw. I think we're getting there. What I'm fishing for is when do you decide to draw and if in trial can you articulate why you drew.
 

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Agreed. I think the key issue here is context of the situation. The only time that I've drawn (as a civilian) was when I was surprised by a BG coming out of a bush and rushing me. There was no cognitive thought on my part, just a hard shove to his chest with my left hand while my right came out with the pistol, all on it's own. No time, no thoughts, just reaction.

Every other sticky situation, I've had the time to evaluate and take corrective actions that didn't require a presentation of my weapon (such as crossing the street, enter a building, etc...). Again, it all requires context.
 

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Great point, awareness, now when do you decide to draw. I think we're getting there. What I'm fishing for is when do you decide to draw and if in trial can you articulate why you drew.
I draw when I perceive the threat as being lethal to me, given the situation at hand. Thus, the totality of the circumstances. Granted, my perceptions may be very different from someone that doesn't do what I do for a living, and whom I work around.

Biker
 

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Discussion Starter #10
and Biker you have the advantage of having to be in Condition Orange all the time. (except with me)
I think we're getting there, at some point you will decide to draw,think aboutit, be able to articulate it.
I've drawn twice, the attempted robbery of the Hometown Buffet, and the Pep Boys hammer attack.
I did correctly at the Hometown Buffet, but allowed myself to be an almost victim at Pep Boys. I was saved only because the hammer wielder chose to hit a man holding a child.
Since i took LFI I, I used Mas's advice to analyize human action and as a H S wrestling coach I'm good at detecting physcal movement.

So I ask, seeing movement that is consistant with drawing a gun, when do you in turn draw?
 

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I have to look at a number of things in any situation prior to a gun coming out.
Hopefully, I have already focused upon a situation that looks 'fishy'...something is not right. Is someone approaching me, am I being addressed, do I sense an immediate threat, can I safely leave the area, is my wife with me...?????

I usually avoid particular situations such as ATM's, dark alley type places, etc., staying with a crowd, if possible, and keeping my head on a swivel instead of on the phone.

To describe any other situation, it's almost one of those "you'd have to be there" things to really know how to proceed.
 

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...The "What time is it?" line is a great prelude to a mugging. It forces you to take your eyes off the attacker and distracts you.
...
FWIW: If I'm not at work I very seldom wear a watch. ...
Retrieving a cell phone that's clipped to the back of a belt can look very much like a draw.
I use my cell phone to display the time rather than wearing a watch: if asked by a suspicious fellow, how 'bout saying, "Dunno - let me check my cell phone" and reach for something else?

My thinking here is that the same motions he would see as a threat would be masked by his expectation that I would be performing them, and the decision-making he would have to do upon presentation of a pistol instead of a cell phone might delay him long enough for me to take action.

Or am I back to playing Cowboys and Indians where my long shot saves the day?

The big answer, of course, is to stay out of questionable areas, be home early, cross the street to avoid the bad guy, keep the situational awareness up, and so on. But I was intrigued by the possibility of doing a 'fake'.
 
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