Reciently in the NW Fla. area there have been several bank"robberies". The perp walks in,hands the teller a note,she puts the money in the sack(bag to you northerners) and the perp just walks out the door. It is reported that no weapon is seen. If the note sez something about a bomb,no bomb is seen. My question to you LEO's,lawyers,or the rest of you is-------- If you just ask someone for their money,and they just hand it to you,are you doing anything illegal ?? If there is no threatening jesture made.To just hand over the money without seeing a weapon or a bomb makes me wonder____? I understand that the tellers have been briefed to do just that. What would the harm be if the teller simply said,"show me your weapon and I will give you the money". What would you do as a CCW if you saw this goin' down and saw no(visable)weapon?? I realize that this is not your money---BUT--- I sure would feel kinda stupid if I just let the perp walk outta the bank after the teller just handed him the moola. I'm not sayin' that I would put a couple in his back if he tried to run when confronted,but--theirs gotta be something that we can do.------------
Gemme Your Money !
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I asked that question (in writing) of my DA, because I am frequently armed when I go to my bank and the bank in question was robbed much like the above scenario ~2 hours before I went there one day. BTW, this DA is a personal friend and a BOD member for the bank in question.
The short answer I got was that unless I (and I am LE, but not on the PD) was personally threatened with a weapon, if I drew my weapon I'm going to jail. It was also made clear to me that I'd probably spend more time in jail than the bank robber, plus be a "prohibited person" (unable to defend myself/family legally) for the rest of my life, assuming I didn't die of old age in jail.
That's our "criminal" justice system up here in MA!
The short answer I got was that unless I (and I am LE, but not on the PD) was personally threatened with a weapon, if I drew my weapon I'm going to jail. It was also made clear to me that I'd probably spend more time in jail than the bank robber, plus be a "prohibited person" (unable to defend myself/family legally) for the rest of my life, assuming I didn't die of old age in jail.
That's our "criminal" justice system up here in MA!
I don't see where being a retired LEO has anything to do with this situation. A CCW holder is not paid to guard the bank or take charge of their money problems. Another reason is a retired LEO, at least the ones I know get to shoot at a piece of cardboard maybe every 5 years to renew their CCW. I don't think those guys are great shooters at all. There may be exceptions but I bet they break more chairs watching soap TV then sitting at the range. :smile:
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Interesting Topic ~ The Bank
If it's "bank policy" to give away their insured $money$ to Bad Guys that just walk in and hand the bank teller a note that says:
"Hi~Please fill this sack/bag up with lots of money. Thanks!"
Then...I sure am not about to get involved in that.
The bank can give away all of the money that they want to give away.
If it's "bank policy" to give away their insured $money$ to Bad Guys that just walk in and hand the bank teller a note that says:
"Hi~Please fill this sack/bag up with lots of money. Thanks!"
Then...I sure am not about to get involved in that.
The bank can give away all of the money that they want to give away.
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There was a case a few years ago where the bank robber handed the teller a note which said something like "please put all your money in this bag"... no threat was made, no weapon was seen.
The teller did as asked, and the "robber" left the bank.
He was caught, but was only required to give back the money. He couldn't be charged with anything, because all he did was "ask", with no use of force or threat of force no crime was committed.
In any case, bank deposts and banks are insured against theft. Unless a BG crossed my engagement line by making me think he was going to kill me or someone else (most bank robbers are intelligent and realize that commiting a bank robbery is one thing, commiting a murder during the commission of another felony is a death penalty case) I'd just leave well enough alone. Very situationally-dependent, this one.
The teller did as asked, and the "robber" left the bank.
He was caught, but was only required to give back the money. He couldn't be charged with anything, because all he did was "ask", with no use of force or threat of force no crime was committed.
In any case, bank deposts and banks are insured against theft. Unless a BG crossed my engagement line by making me think he was going to kill me or someone else (most bank robbers are intelligent and realize that commiting a bank robbery is one thing, commiting a murder during the commission of another felony is a death penalty case) I'd just leave well enough alone. Very situationally-dependent, this one.
I will not do anything during a bank robbery unless the BG starts searching people in the bank. I have talked with LEOs I know and they have the exact same instructions. Be a witness, and do nothing. If they start searching people, or harming people, then they can act. They are briefed that bank robbers usually have a plant in the bank who is there to cover the robbers. That person's only job is to take out anyone who would interfere with the robbers. Stupid would be me engaging an unarmed robber while his armed buddy filled me with lead.
As for it being a crime, in VA the teller needs only believe their life was threatened for it to be a crime. So the robber may be polite, but they are still going to jail.
-Scott-
As for it being a crime, in VA the teller needs only believe their life was threatened for it to be a crime. So the robber may be polite, but they are still going to jail.
-Scott-
RSSZ, I carry guns to protect me and mine.
If you want to try to be a police officer, suggest you go do so.
If you drew a gun in the situation you describe, one could assume you were the problem, and if that gun happened to get pointed at me or mine???
Sorry to be this way, but I believe you need to rethink the reason you carry. The cape defender thing could get you or others injured or killed, and/or you in jail for a long time. Next look at the civil liability if you kill or injure someone.
Sorry, you go ahead, I'll wait here.
If you want to try to be a police officer, suggest you go do so.
If you drew a gun in the situation you describe, one could assume you were the problem, and if that gun happened to get pointed at me or mine???
Sorry to be this way, but I believe you need to rethink the reason you carry. The cape defender thing could get you or others injured or killed, and/or you in jail for a long time. Next look at the civil liability if you kill or injure someone.
Sorry, you go ahead, I'll wait here.
Dittos, the banks are insured unless human life is directly threatened be invsible, observe and report. BTY I use the drive up 99.9% of the time and the last BG that was dumb enough to try and rob the drive through... well just let us say the cops were laughing so hard that when they arrested him he almost got away.acparmed said:
RSSZ, not trying to be hard on you but consider this.
Twenty some years ago I attended a Police Instructors workshop at Camp Perry, Ohio. One of the instructors was Frank Mc Gee.
His presentation was on bank robbers. the emphasis was on their use of backup people.
In particular I remember one team..a salt and pepper pair, who took turns being robber and BU. The BU would be one to two tellers over from the robber, and got in line later so he had good visability. The class watched these guys do several jobs until finally involved in a shootout with a security guard. Guard got one, BU got guard.
I hope the time never comes when I am forced to take action. When would that be?
Well there are some things I will not do:
Lay on floor
Be tied up
Go in vault, or back room
My wife is aware and will move away from me if any of the above are taking place.
RSSZ, continue asking questions, continue training, we are all learning, and I am not an expert, or even close.
Twenty some years ago I attended a Police Instructors workshop at Camp Perry, Ohio. One of the instructors was Frank Mc Gee.
His presentation was on bank robbers. the emphasis was on their use of backup people.
In particular I remember one team..a salt and pepper pair, who took turns being robber and BU. The BU would be one to two tellers over from the robber, and got in line later so he had good visability. The class watched these guys do several jobs until finally involved in a shootout with a security guard. Guard got one, BU got guard.
I hope the time never comes when I am forced to take action. When would that be?
Well there are some things I will not do:
Lay on floor
Be tied up
Go in vault, or back room
My wife is aware and will move away from me if any of the above are taking place.
RSSZ, continue asking questions, continue training, we are all learning, and I am not an expert, or even close.
KC135, Sorry sir, if I got you upset. I just threw it out for comment. I didn't infer that I was a "shooter". To set the record streight---1. I CCW to protect myself and my family also.---2.I do not want to try to be a police officer.---3. I would surely not point my weapon at you or yours because you would not be the problem.---4.Can't figure why you feel that I need to rethink the reason that I carry.(but will leave that one alone)---5. I don't want to be a caped defender.---6. Your absolutely right 'bout the civil liabilities issue. That follows each and every one of us 24/7. My last sentence was"theirs gotta be something that we can do". Now I know what the above people will do. I did not intend to make anyone think that I would shoot up the bank or even present my weapon.Again,sorry for my upsetting comments.--------
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