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Discussion Starter #1
I just joined the forum though at 70 years old I have a rather in depth history with firearms.

I find myself on the Left Coast where how shall we will say many people, including some that you would think would be for "the right of the people for self defense" are far from enthusiastic shall we say. Now, I have met some very wonderful people here in California, I just have to be guarded as to what I say and who I say it to out here as even "hunting" can be a "touchy" subject to discuss in open public. If you are in one of the few gun stores or shooting ranges then you can be more free to speak freely or a newbie to ask questions without fear of a verbal tongue lashing in public for your backward mentality. I just smile and walk away letting them think they have conquered another neanderthal as they don't know who or even what they are talking to (letting them have their blissful lack of knowledge moment).

Anyway, my wife and I are going to be moving into a "seniors only" apartment complex nearer our three youngest granddaughters away from the "wife beater" that lives above us now that goes off every couple of months yet even though my wife and I personally witnessed him commit an assault and battery on another female neighbor which wanted to press charges the local deputies refused to arrest him and "his wife" refuses to press charges (she is no angel herself as she threatens all the neighbors and the apartment management just says call 911). Why? I never could get a clear answer why the guy was not arrested when I went down and talked to the deputies "Watch Commander" other than him just say "he was not there" and me saying to him my wife and I were it needs to be investigated. Between the drugs used in the apartment complex and the screams from the apartments my wife and I are moving to a "seniors only" complex and to think "we live in a relatively LOW crime area of Santa Clarita, CA" which is rather "a high dollar area.

Back to why I am posting here. I have my .45 ACP ammo down and have for years but where my wife and I are moving is a multi-story seniors complex with seniors all around us behind the walls. The complex though nice is not protected from "criminal element" that sometimes likes to prey on the elderly. Now, I am not in fear for myself. I am looking for updated actual street shooting information on the Cor Bon Glaser Silver ammo in .44 Special and .44 Magnum to fit my other guns in case of a home invasion robbery which is a favorite out here. I have not kept up with the Glaser since Cor Bon took over the ammo production. They will be for my "house guns" so if the "knock and rob" crew come in I just want to make sure I am protecting my elderly neighbors. I know what I am capable of inside my own apartment; "a man has to know his own limitations" and as a former Eagle Scout (and first in my tactics class in the US Army) I believe in being as prepared and plan for as many scenarios as possible. My trainers used to say "getting in is one thing, getting out is a whole different animal." :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Anyone with actual street experience with Cor Bon Glaser Silver ammo in .44 Special or .44 Magnum especially out of short barreled guns at short ranges? Please share!
 

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From what I've seen of the gel tests, those rounds don't penetrate enough to reach the vital organs. Consider, the bullet may have to penetrate an arm to get to the torso. I'd recommend one of the top hollow points.
 

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Two Bears, moving to a hi-rise condo does indeed present a concern with over-penetration. I doubt that you will find any street creds for the Glaser Silver which IIRC uses the equivalent of 6-shot epoxied into the cup which was/is intended to improve penetration over the original blue version that used 9-shot, IIRC.

Here is a pretty thorough review of the .45ACP performance through drywall, pork shoulder and clear gel.

 

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It seems to do a great job of going through multiple walls, doesn't it? It seems to me that most any round that would not penetrate a wall (wallboard on both sides) isn't going to do much damage to a criminal either. It is a serious problem when you live in a multi unit dwelling of any kind! I wish I had an answer because we live in a condo development and have neighbors through the wall on one side and the next condo building might be close enough that a round which penetrated the outside siding could possibly penetrate that building also.
 

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Perhaps some strategically placed tall bookcases filled with lots of hardbound books.
 

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Also goes through walls, plural.

As ShooterGranny said—any round that's going to stop in a wall isn’t going to be very effective is stopping a threat.

TANSTAAFL.

I’d avoid Glaser/MagSafe/frangibles across the board. Less effectiveness in stopping the threat means more rounds will likely need to fired to get the stop; more rounds fired in a dynamic situation means a much greater chance of missing...and misses will be what are dangerous.

In .45, in that situation...I’d likely look at something like a 185gr Silvertip or 165gr HydraShok. Lighter bullets will penetrate less walls, usually, but those should still have enough weight to be effective stoppers.

As far as .44Mag? BadBob, iirc, speaks highly of the Remington 185gr HP...but still suspect that bugger will have some serious wall penetration.
 

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No personal experience with it, but if it wont make it through a simple sheet or two of drywall, it wont reach the vitals. I wouldnt rely on it to stop an attacker.

Id run a traditional JHP like a Gold Dot or a HST and just make sure that the angle I was shooting at was an advantageous one. If youre on the top floor, aim high. If youre on the bottom floor, aim low. If youre holed up in your home when your door is being kicked in, aim at the door at such an angle that if you miss, you will have less of a chance of hitting another building.

If you really are that close together, I wouldnt worry about it. Not much you can do. Too many variables to account for. If the time ever comes, just keep it in mind and try to be as safe as possible when dealing with a threat. The one thing that I just WOULD NOT do is load up some gimmick ammo or birdshot in a shotgun. Now you are firing a gun (lethal use of force) without the benefit of reaching vitals and stopping someone.
 

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Glaser safety slugs might suit your needs in consideration of your new living situation.
Could mix in some bird shot rounds for variety. :image035:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I could go to Buffalo Bore's ANTI-PERSONNEL 44 Special Ammo - 200 gr. Hard Cast Wadcutter (1,000 fps) and shoot that in the Ruger Super Readhawk Alaskan I am planning to buy but I really want something that will pretty much blow-up inside the human body after about 10'' of penetration pureeing the chest cavity organs without exiting. If I use my .44 Mag. Alaskan it will be at very close if not at contact distance (I have seen people die that close before). That is why I was looking so closely at the .44 Special Glaser Silver Tips even above the .44 Mag. Glaser Silver Tips as the reduced velocity might allow for increased penetration before the Glaser Capsule blew yet without exit even on very skinny people.

I was thinking if a knock and rob type comes to my door and I answer it, as my wife never answers the door, my 40 plus years of martial arts might give me enough of an edge to deflect his gun hand just long enough to retrieve my Alaskan and shove it just to the left under his sternum. My thinking was that a .44 Special 135 grain Silver Tip Glaser at just under somewhere 1300 fps fired upward from that point should pretty much liquefy his left lung and heart hopefully killing him instantly. If that was not a possibility then I would try to put the Alaskan right under his chin and fire the round right up into his cranial vault and thus directing the shot into the ceiling if anything exited. Of course either of these should work with several of the more explosive .44 Special round while reducing chances of collateral injuries due to over penetration. It is what happens next if he has buddies in the hallway that concerns me for my neighbors. With Glasers the risk would be mostly mine but with HPs who knows even out of .44 Specials rather than .44 Magnum loads.

I am trying to consider the different scenarios that could possibly play out, plan for and limit the risks involved to everyone. Any knock and robs made their choices but the innocents living around me have to have their lives protected as much as humanly possible.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

I have some remnants of body armor samples I could place to limit danger to my neighbors also. When we get our new apartment I will have to see where I can strategically place them for use.
 

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I could go to Buffalo Bore's ANTI-PERSONNEL 44 Special Ammo - 200 gr. Hard Cast Wadcutter (1,000 fps) and shoot that in the Ruger Super Readhawk Alaskan I am planning to buy but I really want something that will pretty much blow-up inside the human body after about 10'' of penetration pureeing the chest cavity organs without exiting. If I use my .44 Mag. Alaskan it will be at very close if not at contact distance (I have seen people die that close before). That is why I was looking so closely at the .44 Special Glaser Silver Tips even above the .44 Mag. Glaser Silver Tips as the reduced velocity might allow for increased penetration before the Glaser Capsule blew yet without exit even on very skinny people.

I was thinking if a knock and rob type comes to my door and I answer it, as my wife never answers the door, my 40 plus years of martial arts might give me enough of an edge to deflect his gun hand just long enough to retrieve my Alaskan and shove it just to the left under his sternum. My thinking was that a .44 Special 135 grain Silver Tip Glaser at just under somewhere 1300 fps fired upward from that point should pretty much liquefy his left lung and heart hopefully killing him instantly. If that was not a possibility then I would try to put the Alaskan right under his chin and fire the round right up into his cranial vault and thus directing the shot into the ceiling if anything exited. Of course either of these should work with several of the more explosive .44 Special round while reducing chances of collateral injuries due to over penetration. It is what happens next if he has buddies in the hallway that concerns me for my neighbors. With Glasers the risk would be mostly mine but with HPs who knows even out of .44 Specials rather than .44 Magnum loads.

I am trying to consider the different scenarios that could possibly play out, plan for and limit the risks involved to everyone. Any knock and robs made their choices but the innocents living around me have to have their lives protected as much as humanly possible.

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!

I have some remnants of body armor samples I could place to limit danger to my neighbors also. When we get our new apartment I will have to see where I can strategically place them for use.
Choosing a load based on one, single “what if” scenario just doesn’t seem wise to me...but that’s me, and you’re you.

FWIW, this Buffalo Bore WC's are what are loaded in my 3” 629 I keep handy. I don’t live in multi-unit housing, but still have to be mindful of Rule 4.
 

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I'm not sure if it's still available, but the Winchester 185 gr Silvertip JHP was pretty good at not overpenetrating domestic walls but had a decent stopping effect on aggressive bipeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Choosing a load based on one, single “what if” scenario just doesn’t seem wise to me...but that’s me, and you’re you.

FWIW, this Buffalo Bore WC's are what are loaded in my 3” 629 I keep handy. I don’t live in multi-unit housing, but still have to be mindful of Rule 4.
If I could carry my firearm legally in CA, I would choose completely different ammo. In LA County I can carry my handgun in my car if it is in a lock case or storage compartment with the ammo in a separate compartment of the vehicle. Getting a CCW in LA County requires a near act of God and there is no such thing as open carry as I said. I have other firearms such as my .45ACP loaded with 230gr. Hydra-Shoks as well as others. I am looking at the ever increasing home invasion robberies and an easy carry gun/ammo solution for me. I'm 6'5" and 300lbs and wear loose clothing designed to easily hide a gun (from when I had a CCW in other states). That is why I am tailoring this to a specific need/scenario. I have other weapons that can address other scenarios much better. :smile:

My nightstand gun is a 10 shot S&W 617-4 .22LR because at the distance I will be shooting I am deadly accurate with it as I shoot it so much and I will be shooting for the nose/eyes area. Currently, it is backed up by a Ruger SuperRedhawk loaded with Winchester 210 grain Silver tips sitting right next to my Ithaca Model 37 Deerslayer III with D Duplek Monolit 32 Steel Slugs just in case someone is wearing body armor. So I am not putting all my eggs in one basket or in one location in my apartment. I have studied both military and police tactics all my life since my father was a WWII platoon Sgt. and he MADE sure I learned everything he knew from an early age. I served in the US Army and took Criminal Justice post graduate and I realize how jaded a view of the world I have. My first wife was a deputy sheriff and my current wife of over 30 years was a Lieutenant in the Colorado Prison System as well as the first woman to to command a full wing in the Men's Prison System.
 

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I load Hornady 185 gr XTP at 900 fps for my wife to use. They are light, and expand well in most conditions. They would do as well as anything I have tried at staying inside a body, and not passing through several walls. And this bullet design is used in a lot of defensive ammo. It has a good record of stoping fights. I would prefer a heavier bullet but inside our house this will do the job! DR
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I load Hornady 185 gr XTP at 900 fps for my wife to use. They are light, and expand well in most conditions. They would do as well as anything I have tried at staying inside a body, and not passing through several walls. And this bullet design is used in a lot of defensive ammo. It has a good record of stoping fights. I would prefer a heavier bullet but inside our house this will do the job! DR
Thanks, DR! I will do further investigation into the Hornady 185 gr XTP. DR, was my fathers initials standing for David Russel.

I know I am setting some hard to meet perimeters. It is for sure an unlikely scenario to ever happen however I was taught to plan/train for worse cases so that if they never happen nothing lost but if they do then you are ready. Plus I'm retired and its fun. Yea, I know I'm weird.

How do you deal with California and its "laws"? Were you born here? I mean NO disrespect but it is SO hard for someone like me that has lived in really "free" states over my 70 years to take easily. I am from such a different time and society it is really hard for me to hear the things I hear out here. Not to say I have not met some really great people but they are just so few and far between.
 

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@Two Bears I cannot speak from experience about Glasers, I doubt anybody in the country can. Just some words from years of looking at shooting victims.

First, frangible rounds for pistols are more designed to protect the corporate bottom line than the user's life. Buy very many and you'd spend less money hiring private armed security.

Second, anything that will save your life will penetrate almost anything. Learn to shoot and hit your target every time. With a proper load, and following the advice already given here as to firing angles, you'll be fine.

Third, scenarios are fine unless you decide your scenario is exactly how things will go if, God forbid, the worst ever happens. At that point you may face a threat with exactly the wrong response. Better to plan general defensive principles and focus less on how you think it will go down. If a home invasion appears to be the most likely threat, plan general principles that will cover how it could go down.

Fourth, lots of people focus on over penetration to the exclusion of protecting what is really important - and likely. The general idea is to get you and your wife out of the event alive. That is your first priority. If protecting your neighbors is your first priority, you'd probably be better off not owning a lethal weapon, and perhaps even moving in with them. Again, hit the threat center mass first time, every time and you'll generally be fine.

Fifth, choose your ammo from what police carry - or failing knowing that, choose from reputable test data, not ad hype. I suggest spending some time here:

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP

Click on the PENETRATION DEPTH column to see how the various loads stack up. My department carried Federal HST. They work. Any caliber, any flavor. There are many others that do the same.

Last, if you still cannot get over the concern for neighbors, let me recommend a 12 gauge shotgun with birdshot. Forget the pistols. (Those who know me here are probably choking in a fit of hysterical laughter.) Be aware that the best load for defense is 00 or #1 buckshot (IMHO) but a shotgun, even loaded with birdshot, will bring out the cowardice in criminals. It won't do much to stop their criminal activities, but might trigger a stampede.
 
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