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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all. I need some advice on a little Glock 27 I got for summer carry. I am having trouble point shooting it. My para shoots where I look as does my 20+ year old PT99. This little 27 is kicking my butt! I was point shooting low and left. I learned to change my grip of it and got rid of that problem. I now look at the target area about the second or third button down the shirt and hit target square in the nose. I do fine although it takes extra concentration if I sight shoot this gun but lets face it point shooting is what gets you out of deep crap when the time comes. I have tried a pearce +1 mag extension and it doesn't help as far as impact. I do like the feel of the gun with it on there better though. I have seen it mentioned a few times that a 1911 shooter will start off hitting high with a Glock. I'm just at a loss as to what change I need to do to get my desired impact. I'm headed back to the drawing board tomorrow with another 2 or 3 hundred rounds to see if I can work it out but a suggestion or two from someone that uses 1911s and glocks would be a boone! TIA
 

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You're not gonna like this......

This may not be the answer that you want to hear but, usually you are far better off finding the handgun that shoots exactly where YOU LOOK rather that trying to adapt yourself to where one of your handguns wants to shoot.
I get rid of any handguns that do not point shoot correctly for me.
I have been instinctive shooting for a long time and there are some firearms that just do not suit me and they refuse to "point shoot" accurately for me ~ while others are dead on the money.
Were I you....I would honestly go gun shopping again.
IF...you are really serious about true point shooting.
That is my honest answer UNLESS that is the handgun that you choose to "point shoot" with forever.
You are really going to subliminally mess yourself up with your Para & your PT99 if you force adapt the location of your instinctive hits with your GLOCK.
Just my opinion.
 

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Hi Willy
Glocks always teneded to slithly tip upwards to me....they feel strange in my hands for some reason.....I'm always had to tip my wrist a bit to get them to shoot where I wanted em to.........the 1911 has more of a natural feel to me.....just my 2 cents
 

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I agree with both of the posts above. I had a Glock 30 for awhile and while there were things I liked about the gun, I didn't like the way it shot compared to my 1911. I couldn't hit squat when I was point shooting and was not satisified with it when taking careful aim. I was not willing to "change the way I normally aim" for the Glock so I got rid of it. In another caliber a Glock might suit me, but in .45 it doesn't.
 

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It’s common for 1911 shooters to not shoot Glocks well at first. There is a difference in the grip angles that throws people off. It all depends on what you are use to. I primarily shoot Glocks, and they shoot great for me. My dad is a die hard 1911 guy, and Glocks give him trouble, especially if shot quickly. He is a very good shot, but I saw him miss twice at very short range when he tried to take care of an armadillo, with my G23. If it had been a 1911 that armadillo would have been soup with one shot. Luckily he didn’t get away because of the slowness and stupidly of armadillos.
 

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You could always use it as trade in on a new CZ 75 Compact 40 steel frame, or my personal fave, a CZ75 PO1? I know, I do sound like a broken record sometimes....
Find the one that fits you to a T, and go from there. i bought/sold/traded many many handguns before finding the "one".
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I shoot a LOT of different handguns. Each takes a different grip in some form or another. My 629 shoots like a revolver, it takes a different hold. I feel comfortable carrying it for much worse than a human threat, I'm a closet scardy cat when it comes to lions in the mountains. It creeps me out thinking about being played with like a mouse. 5 shots for the cat and the last for me if I can manage it :1conf03: I shoot my contender well out to 200 yards again a different hold and disipline I realize. I do guess one thing. Head shots are not all bad for defense and if I can't manage to learn this little gun that conceals SO well on my little frame I will get rid of it but I'm going to try and learn it. I like the thought of 11 rounds over the 7+1 of the Para but then again the trigger on the Para is so sweet and it points so well. I'm just self concious about it printing through my clothes some.
 

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It's getting better! I took my Para, pt99 and the g27 to the range today. I took enough ammo for a small war too. I kept shooting the 27 till it go to doing more of what I wanted then I would switch around to different guns and back to the 27 again. I finally got to putting just about every round into the A area of the target just point shooting. The really great thing seemed that the better I shot the 27 the better I shot the other 2 guns. Seems when I tuck my little finger under the mag on the 27 it brought everything down where the other to guns shoot to. Go figure, I had always feared that would really mess up my groups. NOT!
 

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better to find 1 angle of grip and similar characteristics to yer carry guns. When ya really need it is not the time to be adjusting point of aim.
 

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Willy P

I am solidly behind Bumper & rocky on this one.
You are "force conditioning" yourself to shoot to an "other than completely natural point of aim" with one particular firearm and...that is going to mess you up when the chips go down & you need to shoot accurately-split-second-instinctively.
When the BG with the Aluminum baseball bat is running at you full speed & about to knock your head over the wall for a Home Run...that not the time to be mentally adjusting your intended point of impact.
So...unless you intend to stick with just that one firearm as your permanent "carry" firearm...then it's sort of a bad idea.
Also: Then keep your other firearms for aimed/sighted fire only.
Do not attempt to instinctively "point shoot" two or three different handguns that naturally hit for you at different target locations.
Especially if you are "off" more than just slightly vertically!
In true QK type point shooting you should be picking a very small spot (real or imagined) on your intended target & mentally processing that exact "spot" for no more than one-tenth of a second before your first bullet is "Away" toward the target. If you are not hitting in that spot then you pretty much have the wrong personal firearm.
That is the reality of the situation.
 

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Before I start in on this let me say I'm not looking to stir things up. I for one hate agueing but I do like to see things from all sides so I'm asking questions and that is all. OK :biggrin: I hate print as there is no "reading" a person as they are typing questions and relpies. Here goes. We all sit and read articles by whomever, I'm putting Massad Ayoob in here for sake of a name ( nope I don't think I'm close to his level ) he talks about shooting this or that firearm in competition and carrying this or that on duty and something else off duty ( I've seen mentioned different styles of handgun ) Where in everyones opinion does that fall when it is mentioned to stick with one gun. Now some personal experience of mine- not handgun related- Shotguning. Personally I have experienced that the same brand shotgun in several guages is nice but when you change barrel lengths I personally may as well change brands as point shooting them at game ( doves or waterfowl ) is dramatically different but using the same length barrel is not all that difficult under several brands or even styles of gun ( stack barrel as opposed to semi auto or pump gun ) It is embarassing to try and pump another round in a stack barrel when you have been using a pump for 2 days and yes it would mean your life in a defense situation but as far as actual hits per attempts the barrel lenght issue is much more important that the change of stock angles or trigger pull lengths. Ok let the answers fly but remember I just am looking for experiences or personal thoughts on things NOT brewing for a fight :redface:
 

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Willy P said:
Here goes. We all sit and read articles by whomever, I'm putting Massad Ayoob in here for sake of a name ( nope I don't think I'm close to his level ) he talks about shooting this or that firearm in competition and carrying this or that on duty and something else off duty ( I've seen mentioned different styles of handgun ) Where in everyones opinion does that fall when it is mentioned to stick with one gun.
I think you hit the nail on the head with what you have in your first set of parentheses. In other words, Ayoob can go from gun to gun to gun and never miss a beat because he has put a zillion rounds down range, and shoots at a higher level. Most of us don't shoot anywhere near that much, and therefore aren't likely to develop that level of "universal" proficiency.

I feel that until you reach a certain level of experience/proficiency, you are going to get better results if you concentrate on one "platform."

SSKC
 

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Willy P

You (for sure) are not stirring anything up. You have some GOOD questions.
I am not laying any mandatory doctrine down that I'm forcing you to follow. I am just offering my personal & friendly opinion. I've only attempted to offer some help after carefully reading your initial post. In that post
You said: "I now look at the target area about the second or third button down the shirt and hit target square in the nose."
and: "This little 27 is kicking my butt!"
and: "I learned to change my grip of it and got rid of that problem."
and: "I was point shooting low and left."
If you were having the same problem with a 1911 pattern pistol THEN there are some very realistic & (fairly easy) solutions that I would have you try...like swapping out the mainspring housing ~ switching to a thinner set of grips ~ trying a medium or short length trigger or reducing the bulk of your grip safety...all of those things that you CAN do to a 1911 but cannot easily do to a GLOCK frame. Sometimes thinning the trigger on the far side of a Colt Pistol in combination with a beefier mainspring housing will raise the POI & move you further to the right. Doing all of those things will change/alter the point of impact without altering your subliminal brain. The main reason that I told you to dump the GLOCK is that there is really not a whole lot that you can do to the GLOCK grip frame to alter it without totally ruining its future resale value. Massad Ayoob is not having trouble hitting with his Glock but you are. I am not saying that to (in any way) come across as being either a smart a$$ or a "know it all" ~ it's just that with a GLOCK you are (pretty much) stuck with the existing grip & pistol configuration unless you really want to do some major expensive butchery. It's not a style of pistol that lends itself to "easy parts change" for "trial & error" experimental alteration.
Usually, with Glock pistols most folks either shoot them OK or they don't shoot them very well at all.
You stated that you are already point shooting decently well with some firearms & now...it seems like you've found a pistol that you really like but, it does not like you.
I am only thinking of your "well being" because "in the heat of the moment" when you barely have enough time to "clear your leather" & get the muzzle up on target ~ you are likely not going to remember that you need to "change your natural grip" in order to get a hit on target...especially if that target is moving & you might be dead in one or two seconds.
That is my rational.
 

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QK you are making perfect sense to me. I agree with all you have posted here.

In no way Willy P does anyone think you are trying to stir people up, as QK said you have some very legitimate questions.

I personally don't like Glocks for the way they handle and shoot. They ARE an incredibly reliable, durable and dependable weapon. I have taught classes for my work where I had 5 Glock 19's to qualify 125 people in 5 days, 6000 rounds of ammo were run through those 5 guns and without cleaning or lubing any part on them, they never failed to go "Bang" when the trigger was pulled. That is reliability.

I am another of those old 1911 farts that hang around here. It's simply my gun of choice. I shoot them better than any other handgun I've shot, so it's what I carry.

You need to make the same choice, find what works for you, every time, all the time, then carry that gun for self-defense.

My humble opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
:eek: too low target!! I needed that after the night of herding electrons I have had. Have any of you all heard of Arizona Responce I lost the URL for the moment but they fill the backstrap of the Glock and then reshape the thing to basically a 1911 type frame.http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/smith/glock/pagesmithglock.htm $150 Some how I see me going to a Carry 12 before all this is over, but , here we go again as that is a double stack frame gun. I just don't feel good some places I wind up with only a 7+1 gun. When the sun comes up on a nice september morning and I notice that in the dark I walked into the middle of a dope patch I want a lot of rounds in a magazine so I at least for the time feel better. Yes I've been there and done that. It is an uneasy feeling. Generally no one is around and you can ease out looking for trip wires on the way BUT some day I just know I'm going to stumble on a nutcases patch. Then there is the neighborhood I work in and walk out into at anywhere from 12 to 3;30 in the morning. OK I'm straying off the subject some now but you see why I like more rounds in fewer magazines? I've been shooting for 46 out of my 48 years and seen very few arms I couldn't shoot well to very well. I guess that is the other thing that makes me think I can get a handle on this little gun. BTW the Para has been in my waist band the last several nights to and fro so I am really paying attention to what you all are saying. I'm just hard headed about giving up on the 27. :damnmate:
 

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Congrats!

Looks like you found your own answer to your problem.
This alteration (below) sure might go a long way toward setting things right for you. Much Much better! Make the pistol fit you & not the other way around. Go for it!
It's slightly ugly but who cares? The Glock pistols are all ugly anyway.
And Yes, I have one & I still think it's an ugly thing. :rolleyes:
But,...they sure do shoot.
 

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As a Glock aficionado that picture makes me shudder.
 

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Jt

That grip is kinda scary lookin' huh? The Nightmare Glock from Hell!
But, the grip profile/configuration is actually quite good.
As long as it's structurally sound ~ it would make good sense for him to have his pistol "operated on"
 
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