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Discussion Starter #1
Im about to make the investiment into a CC Pistol. I previously carried the Cobra Patriot .45, which is categoried as the 'Poor Mans Glock". I like the lightweight, big caliber, safteyless guns.

Would you invest into the Glock 27 with a lasermax internal laser system -or- The Para-Ordinance WartHog?

I find both pistols comfortable & Both guns seem to have grat reviews. Im leaning more towards the wartHog because the Glock is too popular for my liking.

I would like to hear from Glock & WartHog owners
 

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Gunner,

Welcome to the board man. There are some excellent people around.

Now...as far as your question goes, the best way to answer it is to find a range near you and go rent both of the guns, or at least as close to them as you can get.

Just so you're aware, I was at the range last week and was speaking to a guy who'd just had a 'smith put a Lasermax into his Glock. The pistol, which was as relialbe as can be prior to the install was not working after the install was complete. If you're going to go the laser in a glock route, I'd go to Crimson Trace and get one of their models for a Glock.

I'd also like to throw out the idea of looking at the Springfield XD. They're right around the same price as the Glock and for some people point more naturally.

Hope all this helps man.

--Jim

P.S. - You can also look at the HK pistols with a LEM trigger system, the S&W or Walther P99 style pistols, and the Sig DAK trigger system, all of which have no external safeties, and have constant trigger pulls.

P.P.S. - I own and shoot an HK USPc V1 in .40 and a Ruger 22/45 Mrk III (.22LR)
 

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Get the Glock and forget the laser. The lasers are fragile and if you want a pistol that is dependable the Glock is you gun. I'd get the G23 though if I were you. The extra length is not an issue with strong side carry.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thankx for all of the good input.


I was reading another topic where somebody mentioned that the trigger is extremly sensative on the glock, and people have accidently shot themselve in the leg - when the gun was holstered... Its starting to pull me away from Glock, because I leave my firearm in the car (locked glovebox) chambered & the last thing that I want is something to bump the trigger.


Ive also been reading good things about KAHR PM40. Looks are not everyting, but if im going to spend that much I want something sleek & I find glock and para-ordinance more attractive
 

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Sounds like you had you mind made up. A Glock is not any more unsafe than any other pistol. It's the idiot behind the trigger that shoots himself, not the gun. You do need to keep the trigger area covered or the gun in conditon 3, but that's a good idea with any gun.
 

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ParaOrd P10

Gunner said:
Im about to make the investiment into a CC Pistol. I previously carried the Cobra Patriot .45, which is categoried as the 'Poor Mans Glock". I like the lightweight, big caliber, safteyless guns.

Would you invest into the Glock 27 with a lasermax internal laser system -or- The Para-Ordinance WartHog?

I find both pistols comfortable & Both guns seem to have grat reviews. Im leaning more towards the wartHog because the Glock is too popular for my liking.

I would like to hear from Glock & WartHog owners
Having owned both the P10 and the Glock M30 and a Glock M27, I can only say the P10 is a POS. Feels like a 2x4 in the hand, it's heavy and IMHO very unreliable. Remember the "Warthog" is nothing more than a gussied up P10. Mine had nothing but FTF's and FTE's from the first shot. Glocks OTOH are in the upper limits of their class. Best of the best if you will. I speak as a certified firearms instructor for many years (decades? Sheeesh) and a former LEO and US Army officer. Anyway, I'm of the opinion that any sub 4 inch barrel 1911 is inherently flawed in the design. I'm about to purchase a PO TAC-4 LDA (13+1) but that has a Commander length slide and my Commander 1911 has never given me any troubles. There is a good writeup in this months GUNS magazine on the new PO COLONEL LDA (14+1) and to my mind, the best recommendation on any carry gun is 100% relability first and good combat accuracy next. Combat accuracy doesn't necessarily mean match grade accuracy!

Have you considered the Sig Sauer P245 in 45ACP? I have one and it's my primary carry piece. Then comes the Glock M27 (40) and lastly will come the new TAC-4 when I get it. I primarily want it for high stress carry situations and LONG trips. I'll be getting three sp mags (along with what it comes with) as well. There is just something comforting about having 14 rd of 230 gr to launch right now & 13 more back up.
 

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I have no experience with the Wart Hog, However I do have a Glock 27. It is very reliable and conceals very easy. I would also advise you to leave the laser off the 27. If you have an AD with almost any firearm in good mechanical condition, it is your fault and not the guns.
As firefighter4884 said take a look at the Springfield XD. Another reason to look at the Springfield XD is that it also has a grip safety, if you are worried about an AD. Your best bet is to go to a range that rents guns and try them out. That is the only way to find out what works for you.
 

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I have had a Glock 27 for three years. I have never had a malfunction of any kind. And I've tried !!! Excellent carry piece. I use a Max Con V. Very comfortable and easy to conceal with.

I do have a Para P-12-45 that I've been trying to get reliable. Still having problems with it. I like the gun, but it still hasn't been able to replace the Glock..
 

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Thoughtful Additions

If you are concerned about the Glock pistol trigger when putting your firearm in the Glove or under the car seat you can always just spend $20.00 ($10.00 on Ebay) for a cheapo Fobus or Unc. Mikes holster & just use it to stash your firearm holstered & with the trigger covered.
OR...buy a Saf~T~Blok little molded plastic insert that slips in behind the trigger. Either will work fine.
That problem is solved.
 

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I have carried both....

My Para Warthog has given exemplery service. No FTF, FTE, etc. I have shot about 500 rounds of FMJ and hollow point.

I carried it for a couple of months. I went back to the Glock 27 because I couldn't get used to the manual safety. I appreciate the Glock's point and click interface. I also appreciate the fact that I can, if forced, slip the Glock into my front pocket. I wouldn't advise doing this, but occasionally I have done it. If you drop a 1911 in your pocket, the safety could easily get flipped off...

I have heard the Glock safety described as putting the brake on top of the accelerator. However, I have carried a G-26 or G-27 for about 5 years and have had no problems. The trick is keeping your finger off the trigger! The Glock 27 is the only Glock I own.

This link will take you to a write up about the Warthog. Sigforum Discussion on Para Warthog
 

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Pocket 1911

joerapture said:
I also appreciate the fact that I can, if forced, slip the Glock into my front pocket. I wouldn't advise doing this, but occasionally I have done it. If you drop a 1911 in your pocket, the safety could easily get flipped off...
But then you'd STILL have the grip safety and as long as you keep your finger off the trigger, you're okay. However, I don't have a pocket BIG enough to put a 1911 (not even a compact P10) nor a belt strong enough to keep my pants up in such a case! However, I too, have put my Glock M27 in a pocket, and have often carried it in the pocket of a winter coat....which is not very often when I'm home here in Miami, FL!

We're still getting bands from Rita, but thank God, no loss of power. But I got a day off from work! YEA! No school.

Joe, can you explain your screenname? There is a thread here for that. I have a hunch, just wanna see if I'm correct.
 

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I am a Warthog fan as well. This is my daily carry piece and it have been a great gun. 11 rounds of .45 is hard to beat in a package this small. If you would like to read my review of the Warthog go to http://www.vcdl.org/defender/Vol8Issue2.pdf
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Question for the WartHog owners :

How durable are they as-far-as everyday wear and tear (Do they show signs of age/abuse) I'm asking because we've all heard stories of Glocks droped in dirt - or glocks being tossed acroos the room. Most of them dont show singns of age for years..


General question:

I didnt want to start a new topic -- .45 GAP is a shorter bullet, but how does it compare to .45 ACP or .40 as-far-as velocity & stopping power?

Im asking because I just noticed the glock 39. Ive always been a fan of .45 caliber, but I was once told that .40 cal has more stopping power than .45, .40 is technology in a bullet because its a .45 & .357 all in one.

-Dont know if whats I was told is true, because some people will say anything to sell firearms
 

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Wrong. A 120mm tank main-gun round, in either Sabot or HEAT flavors, will pretty much one-shot-stop anything on earth. I realize most don't have access to a Rheinmetall M256 cannon and they're a PITA to carry IWB, but...


BINGO!!!

Stopping power is in placement and repeatability only. There is no magic bullet.
As a side note, since dhomoney posted his link to VCDL in this thread, I've used information on the site to answer a question from a CCW holder on another forum, TFL, who wants to carry on a university campus. Post pasted below:

From the Virginia Citizen's Defense League website:

A lawsuit filed and then dropped against James Madison University regarding individual gun rights cost the school more than $10,000.
According to JMU director of communication Andy Perrine, the state and the school spent a combined $10,200 defending itself against the suit filed by David Briggman.
Briggman sued the school over its concealed-weapons policy and what he called inconsistencies with state law. Briggman eventually dropped the suit after he said he was advised by JMU's chief of public safety that campus police do not have legal authority to enforce the policy.
The case has gained renewed interest after a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for carrying a concealed weapon to class.
So the campus police can't enforce the ban because it isn't "illegal"... but the school can punish you academically/ administratively.

As a side note the VCDL seems to be a very informative and effective organization. I encourage residents of VA to investigate a membership... only $15 for one year seems a good deal.
Just thought I'd let you know.
 

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Tanksoldier: Do they still use the 120mm HEP and Flechette rds as part of the basic combat load? The original M1's I trained on had selector switches for the computer to calibrate for these loads. 'Course that was the older 105mm smoothbore. Lessee if I remember the terminology: Armor Piercing, Fin Stabilized, Discarding Sabot is the main gun tank round, correct? APFSDS right?
 

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Speaking of tanks.
 

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The old 105mm main gun had the HEP and Beehive rounds, also WP.

For a long time the only war rounds for the 120mm were APFSDSDU (Depleted Uranium) and HEAT... of course there are various training versions of those.

Today they are starting to field a canister round, and a "self-forging penetrator" round... long explanation on that one, but essentially it's an explosive round that forms a molten penetrator at an angle to the flight axis of the round, exploding before it hits the target... so you can shoot "over" a tank in a turret-down hide position and the round will go over it and explode down into the top armor. Also good as a proximity round vs helicopters.

CCW on topic content: Ummm, ummm... shucks, who am I foolin'? :sad:
 

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Many Iraqis had no clue. Guys would jump out in the middle of the street and spray an M1 from the hip with an AK at 50 yards.

Absolutely clueless... like that guy.


500Mag said:
Speaking of tanks.
 

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ExSoldier762 said:
Joe, can you explain your screenname? There is a thread here for that. I have a hunch, just wanna see if I'm correct.
You probably guessed it! I got started on the internet doing research on the Rapture and related topics. I made the name up because my name is Joe and I've always like those Snoopy cartoons (Joe Cool, Joe Preppy, etc.).

The handle kinda annoys some folks that are a bit legalistic in their religion.

And the avatar is Larry Boy, the crime fighting cucumber.
 
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