I was reading up on the laws of other states(other than Fla.) and I see that in lots of states,if your pulled over by a LEO you MUST reveal that you have a conceled weapon on your person or in your vechicle. I have been giving this alot of thought,putting myself in the position of an LEO, and I can't come up with but a couple of reasons for this. One is that (i guess)if they ask you to step out of your vechicle and they just happen to see your weapon or if they have cause to pat you down they wont go beserk. If you tell them that you have a CCW license,do they have a RIGHT to touchie-feelie your weapon? Can they ask you to unload it? Can they take posession of it until the stop is finished? What are their rights and what are your rights(if any) during a traffic stop?-------
Gotta Tell ?? Why??
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If you have a handgun carry permit in Tennessee, you are not obligated to disclose to law enforcement if you are carrying or not, unless you are asked directly.
However... in TN, your carry permit number is the same as your drivers license number. So whenever your license plate or drivers license is run, it automatically cross references the fact that you have a handgun carry permit and automatically notifies the officer.
However... in TN, your carry permit number is the same as your drivers license number. So whenever your license plate or drivers license is run, it automatically cross references the fact that you have a handgun carry permit and automatically notifies the officer.
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Gotta Tell
Here in Missouri it is not required, but when I was stop I told them and then when finished ask what caliper and said have a good day. I see no reason NOT to tell.
Here in Missouri it is not required, but when I was stop I told them and then when finished ask what caliper and said have a good day. I see no reason NOT to tell.
In Texas you've got to tell.
I don't know why either. In the first place, once the officer runs your license he knows you have a CHL regardless of whether you tell him or not.
In the second place, why would someone who has subjected themselves to such extensive scrutiny and passed be a person who would have probable cause to attack an officer of the law at a traffic stop?
I hate it because all it does is lend itself to abuse by the handful of crooked folks out there. There's a local community around here where the standard procedure is that once you tell them you're a CHL holder, they take your gun. No questions asked. I can point you to three people who this has happened to. I avoid the area myself. This is also giving Texas law enforcement a bad name.
I also hate it because it means come September 1, a non permit holder will be allowed to have a gun in their vehicle but no part of Texas law states or implies they must reveal its presence to law enforcement. As a permit holder I will however still be required to do so. How is that fair?
I don't know why either. In the first place, once the officer runs your license he knows you have a CHL regardless of whether you tell him or not.
In the second place, why would someone who has subjected themselves to such extensive scrutiny and passed be a person who would have probable cause to attack an officer of the law at a traffic stop?
I hate it because all it does is lend itself to abuse by the handful of crooked folks out there. There's a local community around here where the standard procedure is that once you tell them you're a CHL holder, they take your gun. No questions asked. I can point you to three people who this has happened to. I avoid the area myself. This is also giving Texas law enforcement a bad name.
I also hate it because it means come September 1, a non permit holder will be allowed to have a gun in their vehicle but no part of Texas law states or implies they must reveal its presence to law enforcement. As a permit holder I will however still be required to do so. How is that fair?
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Euclidean
You need to look at it from the officer's point of view.
When you are first stopped you ARE a total Stranger to that officer.
You are an Unknown Entity.
The officer has absolutely no way of knowing if your ID is really yours or you just stole it from somebody else 2 hours ago.
He also has no real way of knowing if your vehicle is stolen & just has not been reported stolen yet.
He also does not know if the true owner of that vehicle that you are driving is dead/murdered and stuffed into the trunk of the car.
In Pennsylvania we are not required to disclose but, I would do it as a matter of common courtesy if I were ever asked to exit my vehicle.
I also would not judge all police officers or police departments by one town in Texas.
I read every Pittsburgh newspaper & I have not ever read of one instance where a firearm was confiscated from a legally licensed Concealed Carry License Holder just because the police officer maybe wanted a new gun for himself. That just does not happen here.
You need to look at it from the officer's point of view.
When you are first stopped you ARE a total Stranger to that officer.
You are an Unknown Entity.
The officer has absolutely no way of knowing if your ID is really yours or you just stole it from somebody else 2 hours ago.
He also has no real way of knowing if your vehicle is stolen & just has not been reported stolen yet.
He also does not know if the true owner of that vehicle that you are driving is dead/murdered and stuffed into the trunk of the car.
In Pennsylvania we are not required to disclose but, I would do it as a matter of common courtesy if I were ever asked to exit my vehicle.
I also would not judge all police officers or police departments by one town in Texas.
I read every Pittsburgh newspaper & I have not ever read of one instance where a firearm was confiscated from a legally licensed Concealed Carry License Holder just because the police officer maybe wanted a new gun for himself. That just does not happen here.
I think they're going into an evidence locker QK. But no one I know, including someone this happened to a year and a half ago, has ever gotten it back. Makes me wonder.
I counter your post with this:
You need to look at it from the Consituition's point of view. I am innocent until proven guilty. I didn't jump through all the legal hoops because I'm the kind of person who would even consider something so base, so evil as to fire on an officer at a traffic stop.
Show me one incident of a CHL holder gunning down an officer at a traffic stop and I'll shut up about it.
Explain to me a good reason why I have to declare and a non permit holder does not and I'll shut up about it.
There are other laws which are inconvenient but I support that favor LEOs. I strongly favor the Get On Over law even though it's a pain in the ass because there's strong precedent for its need. But I take this law as an insult to my character.
I counter your post with this:
You need to look at it from the Consituition's point of view. I am innocent until proven guilty. I didn't jump through all the legal hoops because I'm the kind of person who would even consider something so base, so evil as to fire on an officer at a traffic stop.
Show me one incident of a CHL holder gunning down an officer at a traffic stop and I'll shut up about it.
Explain to me a good reason why I have to declare and a non permit holder does not and I'll shut up about it.
There are other laws which are inconvenient but I support that favor LEOs. I strongly favor the Get On Over law even though it's a pain in the ass because there's strong precedent for its need. But I take this law as an insult to my character.
Euc, the NRA filed a law suite against the city of LA CA because they were taking firearms from people and not returning them. I have heard from a lawyer while briefing us on what to if stopped etc. to go down to the police station and be very polite and ask for your property. I can understand a transaction, you took my property and I need it back kind of deal but suck somebody's kneecaps to get back what they took from me is not the American way. Until the city in question is brought to task keeping firearms it won't stop.
I realize some LEOs may not like legal CCW, however I think most do not have a problem with it. Anyone who intends harm to them is not going to inform him he has a concealed weapon first. The real danger LEOs face each day is those who carry without a permit and who are not going to say anything.
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Not mandatory in PA but - I would feel it a courtesy on most occasions to declare such if stopped - being up front, that's all - on the assumption that the cop doing the stop could better relax once he knows I am a good guy.
I would furthermore on telling - ask the simple question - ''how would you wish me to proceed'' - giving the cop better control and less guesswork. I only say this because I have never relished the aspect of traffic stops for a cop where for a short time - he really does not know who he is facing.
IMO - better for him - better for me.
I would furthermore on telling - ask the simple question - ''how would you wish me to proceed'' - giving the cop better control and less guesswork. I only say this because I have never relished the aspect of traffic stops for a cop where for a short time - he really does not know who he is facing.
IMO - better for him - better for me.
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I Virginia we don't have to notify the officer if we are carrying but he will know when he runs your drivers licence. I was pulled over last fall and had my Sig 239 on me. Before the officer walked up to my door I already had my drivers licence, insurance card, registration card and CCW permit out. When I handed him the cards I said "Here also is my carry permit and...ahhhh...I have a firearm on me right now. What do you need me to do?" The whole time Keeping my hands on the steering wheel. He looked at my carry permit for a few seconds and handed it back to me and said "just leave the gun where it's at and sit tight" He walked back to his car and I guess ran my drivers licence. When he came back he just handed me the rest of my cards, thanked me for informing him I was carrying, scolded me for driving fast and let me go with a warning.
I guess a little courtesy will can go along way sometimes.
I guess a little courtesy will can go along way sometimes.
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The most common thing I've heard (from my CCW class instructor and my father who is a retired LEO and firearms instructor) is the following:
1) Keep hands on steering wheel after shutting off engine
2) When the officer approaches, state that you have a carry permit and that you have a weapon on or about your person
3) Ask the officer what his instructions are, as every officer may handle the situation differently
When I was pulled over several years ago, I followed that advice. The officer asked me to step out of the car, then asked me where the weapon was located. He then removed it from my person, unloaded it and placed it into his patrol car. After admonishing me for my speeding, he handed it back to me (unloaded) and that was that. It didn't bother me as I understood the officer's position.
1) Keep hands on steering wheel after shutting off engine
2) When the officer approaches, state that you have a carry permit and that you have a weapon on or about your person
3) Ask the officer what his instructions are, as every officer may handle the situation differently
When I was pulled over several years ago, I followed that advice. The officer asked me to step out of the car, then asked me where the weapon was located. He then removed it from my person, unloaded it and placed it into his patrol car. After admonishing me for my speeding, he handed it back to me (unloaded) and that was that. It didn't bother me as I understood the officer's position.
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Yep , MI requires ya to tell em. As a former LEO I would want to know if someone was carrying. Off duty folks who get pulled over inform em too. Its just safer for the officer and driver this way. Much better than staring down a barrel of a duty weapon cause they spotted a gun on ya.
I completely agree with QKS and P95 and I can tell you that even though it is cross referenced with your DL information, I have run someone before (when I was a reserve LEO) only to find out the computer went down and I couldn't get any information back. In that case you would just be a guy with a gun.
I have been stopped once when I was carrying (open, not concealed) and when the officer came to the window and asked for my license and registration, I pointed at the holstered gun and told him that I had it. He asked if it was loaded. I said yes. He asked me to hand it out to him, which I did. He took my paperwork, and the gun, back to his car. When he came back, he had removed the magazine and cleared the gun. He handed me the magazine and the single round and asked me to put it in my glove compartment, which I did. He then handed me the holstered weapon and asked that I not reload it untill he had pulled away. I said "yes, sir", he handed me my license and registration back and told me he appreciated my courtesy informing of the weapon. I didn't get a ticket although I was, in fact, speeding 15+ over. There's no doubt in my mind that the only reason I didn't get ticketed was that I showed him the courtesy of considering his comfort and safety. State Patrol in Arizona don't usually let you slide on speeding 10+ over the limit. I don't care what the law is, I will inform them I am armed to avoid any misunderstandings.
I have been stopped once when I was carrying (open, not concealed) and when the officer came to the window and asked for my license and registration, I pointed at the holstered gun and told him that I had it. He asked if it was loaded. I said yes. He asked me to hand it out to him, which I did. He took my paperwork, and the gun, back to his car. When he came back, he had removed the magazine and cleared the gun. He handed me the magazine and the single round and asked me to put it in my glove compartment, which I did. He then handed me the holstered weapon and asked that I not reload it untill he had pulled away. I said "yes, sir", he handed me my license and registration back and told me he appreciated my courtesy informing of the weapon. I didn't get a ticket although I was, in fact, speeding 15+ over. There's no doubt in my mind that the only reason I didn't get ticketed was that I showed him the courtesy of considering his comfort and safety. State Patrol in Arizona don't usually let you slide on speeding 10+ over the limit. I don't care what the law is, I will inform them I am armed to avoid any misunderstandings.
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I can see some of both sides of this coin ~ but,
Here in PA. our (LTC Holders) relationship with our local, county, & state officers (so far) has pretty doggone amazingly good. I hope it forever stays that way.
I have not ever found it to be an "US VS.THEM" type of situation.
As far as I am concerned I am on the same correct side of the law as Law Enforcement so...I see no problem extending them the courtesy of knowing that I have a firearm on my person if...there is anything more involved going on...than them handing me a simple ticket through the window.
I don't have a problem with that at all.
Of course...it's just my opinion that I personally don't look at it as an affront on my legal right to carry to inform an officer that I am armed.
He wants to go home at the end of the day & so do I ~ so...whatever helps to eliminate any possible human error or misunderstanding is O~Kee~Doke~Kee with me. :tongue:
Here in PA. our (LTC Holders) relationship with our local, county, & state officers (so far) has pretty doggone amazingly good. I hope it forever stays that way.
I have not ever found it to be an "US VS.THEM" type of situation.
As far as I am concerned I am on the same correct side of the law as Law Enforcement so...I see no problem extending them the courtesy of knowing that I have a firearm on my person if...there is anything more involved going on...than them handing me a simple ticket through the window.
I don't have a problem with that at all.
Of course...it's just my opinion that I personally don't look at it as an affront on my legal right to carry to inform an officer that I am armed.
He wants to go home at the end of the day & so do I ~ so...whatever helps to eliminate any possible human error or misunderstanding is O~Kee~Doke~Kee with me. :tongue:
I do not live in a notification state. However I know enough LEOs in this state to know that your CHP is almost the last thing in your computer record and in "equipped" cars they have to scroll to another page to see it. So the LEO at your window may or may not have checked your CHP status. As you lean over to get your registration from the glove box your pistol is exposed. All the LEO knows is they are now dealing with someone who is armed. Say it is also the middle of the night.
The LEOs I know and have asked about this all say it is a courtesy to notify even though it is not required. One flat out didn't care either way. They say it prevents any misunderstanding at the scene. Not all police cars in Virginia are equipped with computers. State Patrol and large metros are all equipped, but sheriffs departments are not always equipped. The cars they put out at night usually are, but during the day possibly not. So your status as a law abiding CHP holder cannot be easily verified before they LEO comes to the window. Also when traveling in a reciprocal state your CHP status may not be immediately available to the LEO. They may have to radio it in and wait for a call back on your status. IIRC that is how it is in VA. For your permit to be recognized here there has to be a way to verify your CHP status 24/7/365.
What we teach in class is this:
Pull over as soon as you can and turn off the vehicle, don't forget to take your foot off the brake.
Keep your hands on the wheel visible (at night turn on the dome light).
Do nothing until the LEO is at the window, they will instruct you how to proceed. You should not try to get your license and registration ready. Wait until the LEO is there and they will ask you to get it out. They don't know what you are doing, other than moving around.
If you are carrying notify the officer that you are and the location of the gun. Especially if you may/will expose it trying to retreive your license and registration. Mr. Glock is not your friend when his barrel is stuck in your left ear.
Under no circumstances should you hang a hand or arm out the window or exit the vehicle unless directed to do so by the LEO. Most running or assault on an officer incidents that start with a traffic stop start this way.
Be honest and courteous at all times. If you give the LEO a hard time, they will look at ways to give you a hard time. Their BS meters are finely tuned so trying to BS them won't help you either.
My last stop for speeding was in excess of 20 over at about 11:30 PM. I followed the advice above which was given to me by a LEO. Everyone was relaxed and I was given a verbal warning to stay at a maximum of 14 mph over and I would be ok. I was not carrying that night so I did not tell them about my permit. The venue we were at was a school and VA had not yet amended their law regarding storage of a firearm on school property.
-Scott-
The LEOs I know and have asked about this all say it is a courtesy to notify even though it is not required. One flat out didn't care either way. They say it prevents any misunderstanding at the scene. Not all police cars in Virginia are equipped with computers. State Patrol and large metros are all equipped, but sheriffs departments are not always equipped. The cars they put out at night usually are, but during the day possibly not. So your status as a law abiding CHP holder cannot be easily verified before they LEO comes to the window. Also when traveling in a reciprocal state your CHP status may not be immediately available to the LEO. They may have to radio it in and wait for a call back on your status. IIRC that is how it is in VA. For your permit to be recognized here there has to be a way to verify your CHP status 24/7/365.
What we teach in class is this:
Pull over as soon as you can and turn off the vehicle, don't forget to take your foot off the brake.
Keep your hands on the wheel visible (at night turn on the dome light).
Do nothing until the LEO is at the window, they will instruct you how to proceed. You should not try to get your license and registration ready. Wait until the LEO is there and they will ask you to get it out. They don't know what you are doing, other than moving around.
If you are carrying notify the officer that you are and the location of the gun. Especially if you may/will expose it trying to retreive your license and registration. Mr. Glock is not your friend when his barrel is stuck in your left ear.
Under no circumstances should you hang a hand or arm out the window or exit the vehicle unless directed to do so by the LEO. Most running or assault on an officer incidents that start with a traffic stop start this way.
Be honest and courteous at all times. If you give the LEO a hard time, they will look at ways to give you a hard time. Their BS meters are finely tuned so trying to BS them won't help you either.
My last stop for speeding was in excess of 20 over at about 11:30 PM. I followed the advice above which was given to me by a LEO. Everyone was relaxed and I was given a verbal warning to stay at a maximum of 14 mph over and I would be ok. I was not carrying that night so I did not tell them about my permit. The venue we were at was a school and VA had not yet amended their law regarding storage of a firearm on school property.
-Scott-
Thanks to all for your inputs to my questions. Some things concern me about this. It's what a couple of you have said and things that I have heard about some traffic stops with people and conceled weapons. Just let me say that I have a certin amount of respect for most LEO's and the tough job that they have to do. BUT---- If I am stopped I will not give the LEO any more info than I think that he needs to do his job(the reason that he stopped me). I will not not volunteer any extra info. If I am asked to exit my vechicle I will inform the officer that "Sir,I have a PERMIT to carry a conceled weapon and I have one on my person at this time." I will not ask him what he wants me to do. I feel that he will tell me what his needs are. My specific questions are this. After having informed him of the above does he really think that I am prepared to do him any harm? I don't particularly want the LEO feeling all over me ,reaching up under my clothes,or pulling up my shirt(s) and vest to grab at my weapon that he doesn't know how is removed from my holster. What if I am carrying a 1911 in Cond.1 except that the safety is not engauged.(I don't carry this way but that would be my right should I choose to do so.) Seems that the whole thing about him"having to"(for some unknown to me reason) relieve you of your weapon,take out the magazine,eject the round in the chamber,probably on the ground,(and probably give me a lecture about carrying a live round in the chamber),take my weapon back to his vechicle(and do "God only knows what to it") is unnessary for a officer of the law to do to a presumed innocient man. In post #12 was the officer concerned for his safety? In post #14 the officer wanted a man(that he didn't know to be a GG or a BG) seated in a vechicle to unholster a loaded weapon and hand it to him out the window? ---HUH??--- I understand that LEO's ARE concerned for their safety. They have to deal with some BG's that we only hear about on TV. The worst of the worst. But, there has to be a better way to deal with the honest folks out in our society. Folks like you and me.---------
Everyone has different ideas of how to handle encounters with a police officer, but I have found that showing them common courtesy during the encounter will make the situation more likely to go your way. This does not mean you have to make any comments admitting guilt to the infraction you have been stopped for. When I am stopped I will volunteer every shred of information that will help me. In most cases, this is also information that will help him. There's nothing wrong with your approach, but IMHO I will receive less citations with my approach. :wink:RSSZ said:
The gun was holstered and in a position that the officer could clearly see it. I pointed to it when I informed him. I expect had it been unholstered and sitting on the seat he would have taken possession of it himself.
There really is no easy solution to this problem. He doesn't know that you are a good guy until the encounter is over.
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My current roommate is a LEO and my other roommates cousin is a LEO. We go do this Happy hour thing every thursday after work with several other LEO's. All are from the same department in Northern Virginia and we have talked about this subject several times. They all have the same opinion. If they pull someone over that is carrying with a carry permit, and that persons is courtious enought to inform them that they are carrying, 9 times out of 10 they will let them off with a warning.....unless you doing somthing crazey like 120 mph in a 55 mph zone. As a side note they are in their late 20's early 30's and all are pro gun RKBA all the way......
......But by the same token there are a few officers in their department that have never touched a firearm before becoming police officers. Their first exposure to firearms was at the police acadamy and they can get real nervous around civilians carrying firearms. This is why it is real important to inform the officer and do what he tells you to do. Let them handle their own issue with being nervous. If you are legal to carry and your firearm is legal then you should have nothing to worry about.
And one more tip they gave me. Do not use the word "GUN" when informing the officer you are carrying. The word GUN in the police world is an alarm word that one officer will yell to warn other officers when he see a gun unexpectly. It's better to use words like "firearm, pistol or I'm carrying".
......But by the same token there are a few officers in their department that have never touched a firearm before becoming police officers. Their first exposure to firearms was at the police acadamy and they can get real nervous around civilians carrying firearms. This is why it is real important to inform the officer and do what he tells you to do. Let them handle their own issue with being nervous. If you are legal to carry and your firearm is legal then you should have nothing to worry about.
And one more tip they gave me. Do not use the word "GUN" when informing the officer you are carrying. The word GUN in the police world is an alarm word that one officer will yell to warn other officers when he see a gun unexpectly. It's better to use words like "firearm, pistol or I'm carrying".
More often than "sometimes" in my experiance. Of course, courtesy and respect probably aint gonna get you out of a ticket if your caught doing 132 in a 70, but for minor things it normally works for me. I've done a lot of research on this...MechE said:
NC requires us to inform. I've never been disarmed while dealing with LE, most of the time they just want to see the permit, sometimes they dont even ask for it, after informing one LEO that I was armed and had a permit, his reply was "So?"
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