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Gunfight statistics -- good read
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Some very good information, most of it, although I tend to be skeptical of any statistics posted by the Violence Policy Center, who are notoriously anti-gun.
I realize that they would tend to err on the low side of justifiable homicide, but just look at the stats the NRA publishes each month in American Rifleman on their Armed Citizen page. There are usually at least 3-4 justified killings printed there each month, and I would be willing to wager good money they don't print them all. Multiply times 12 and for round numbers lets say there are 50 justified civilian fatal uses of firearms a year. That would mean that the police use their weapons 209 times a year. Both figures seem very low.
I realize that they would tend to err on the low side of justifiable homicide, but just look at the stats the NRA publishes each month in American Rifleman on their Armed Citizen page. There are usually at least 3-4 justified killings printed there each month, and I would be willing to wager good money they don't print them all. Multiply times 12 and for round numbers lets say there are 50 justified civilian fatal uses of firearms a year. That would mean that the police use their weapons 209 times a year. Both figures seem very low.
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Much of it comes from police science institute and Bill Lewinski's group efforts in researching all matters law enforcement related. I've years worth of their monthly publications saved.
Force Science Institute
Force Science Institute
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These numbers are not all that far off from the traditional understanding that most gunfights take place within three yards, last about three seconds, and about three rounds are fired. As for how many crimes are prevented by the presence of a handgun, almost by definition that is a hard number to know. That is, how do you measure crimes that are not committed? Of course you can get some idea if the citizen reports the event to the police who in turn may keep some record of the event and report the same to some clearing house of information. Regardless, I presume that the number given is low, very low. As for the trained vs untrained civilian, for those of us who instruct, perhaps our egos have to take a back seat here. i suspect, and the NRA's Armed Citizen monthly posts verify the same, that the typical civilian self defense shooting is done by a minimally trained person, with, from the point of view of the citizen, pretty good results. We may not all like to admit it, but at the aforementioned range of less that nine feet, oftentimes five or six feet, you do not have to be much of an expert to hit a man sized target. Anyway, thanks for the post.
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Exactly!!
Since most self defense confrontations/gunfights are "close range" being able to quickly deploy and fire your weapon is more critical than marksmanship.
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I look at the term "reported incidents" and wonder how they can estimate unreported incidents. I posted about a road rage event that I was involved in a couple of yrs ago. No official report was ever filed yet it was the presence of the gun in my hand which ended the confrontation. I suspect the number of incidents deescalated by a firearm it unfathomably high.
On the other hand I might be biased by me experience - but if I were a betting man I'd take the "over".
On the other hand I might be biased by me experience - but if I were a betting man I'd take the "over".
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Boston, around 95, border of chinatown and combat zone. Two rival tong gangs numbering 5-6 on both sides shoot it out starting at what witnesses thought an average of 10-12 feet. No hits were reported by either side nor bodies found injured/killed when the boys showed up minutes later. One week later, one of the gangs Lt.s was whacked gangland at a Kentucky Fried Chicken, in a quiet suburb with his family.
I got a call from Stephen Tze's atty as to whether I could rectify one sides PPP. :ziplip:
:bier:
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From Ellifritz's source re stand v. move - STAND, MOVE, OR SEEK COVER?WHAT WORKS IN A GUNFIGHT? | Active Response Training
Although the data are from experiments, it's still pretty eye opening.
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I prefer to think of it as moving the X. I'm of the mindset where you're feet are is X, if you move, you're just changing X.
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I think its important to keep your wits about you to the degree that you can make a sound decision. I may move, I may take a knee, I may go prone or I may stand there in a dueling stance with one arm resting behind my back. It all depends but yeah, if I had to pick a totally arbitrary rule I would lean heavily towards moving. When I say "moving" I mean full motion, not side step (slide) kabooki dance.
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That made me laugh because I met a guy on the range who did just that. I laughed outloud then. It looks ridiculous, but too each their own...
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yes yes exactly!
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Situational dependent, I don't train to move for the sake of movement itself. A side step moves the X, it may be used effectively, or it may not be enough movement. As you mentioned, "it all depends".
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And let's not forget the gun fight at OK Corral. There were some 30 witnesses to the event (meaning that there are some 30 different accounts as to what happened), but one thing was agreed by many. Every one involved, from the Clantons to Holiday and the Earp's were all moving, dodging, ducking and whatever else they could do to "get off the X", with one exception. Wyatt stood completely unmoved. He didn't take one step, forward, backward or to the side, or anything that could be interpreted as a dynamic move. He was the only one who was not hit. Just sayn'...
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