Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 122 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,817 Posts
You might also enjoy reading this. Though a lot has taken place with ammunition improvements since this was written, one can still glean some valuable information from it. It is a rather long read and is the product of questions which arose on a website to the writer.

Terminal ballistics as viewed in a morgue
 
  • Like
Reactions: msgt/ret

·
Registered
Joined
·
125 Posts
Thanks for posting Shootnlead, very interesting indeed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,019 Posts
This is a pretty interesting video about gunshot wounds and effectiveness.

When he spouted off handguns killing people I had enough, the handgun does not kill anyone but the criminal behind the handgun is responsible for the death.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,659 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
When he spouted off handguns killing people I had enough, the handgun does not kill anyone but the criminal behind the handgun is responsible for the death.
He is not anti-gun...and when you are comparing wound channels between rifles and handguns...they have to be differentiated. And, for the record, people do kill people...but they don't create wound channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
323 Posts
even i could understand most of what he said.
very dull and boring but interesting.
just wish the charts had been in better focus.

but this is why it is said the hand gun is used only to buy you time to get your rifle.


.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
and again I hear that the 9mm is not strong, efficient,... cool enough for everybody.
if that caliber was soooo bad in performing why is it used the most by military?
furthermore, I'd like to point out that with the technology in use today you have all you need,. especially for a private citizen.
if that is not good for everybody,. well,.. walk around with a rife,.that should do the trick ;-)
I just think that we all get carried away buy all of those ballistic tests which are done all the time.
we have to embrace the fact that there is a limit of how prepared one can be "everyday" for all twisted scenarios that could come true without looking like a crazy person.

9mm is good enough! if you feel better with a 44 or bigger,. more power to you ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,668 Posts
and again I hear that the 9mm is not strong, efficient,... cool enough for everybody.
if that caliber was soooo bad in performing why is it used the most by military?
Being used by the military doesn't necessarily make it good for personal defense.

From a military standpoint, a handgun is usually a BUG to the rifle. Sure, in some cases they're a primary weapon for those not going out into combat who are coordinating from an ops center, but there's low expectation of actually using it.

The choice of 9mm is one of lowest acceptable common denominator. It's easier to qualify the bulk of the force with 9mm than with more potent rounds. This choice was made by people far removed from combat, including addressing concerns such as logistics, combat load weight, ammo cost, etc. Ask people who are combatants what they would prefer and the answers will be quite varied.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
273 Posts
I am not so sure about that,. here you actually do shoot people in self defense and so far it was sufficient.
so,.in that regard I don't see any compelling reason to change to something else.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,639 Posts
"I absolutely despise a 9mm for defensive situations (yes, they will eventually kill but often not quickly enough to prevent the BG from doing you in first)and a .380 as well. These are probably the two calibers I see most often on the autopsy table."

Did he mention whether those 9's and 380's he sees were fmj ball loads the street urchins use [ for the most part ]?

I'm not too interested in autopsy's observations of failures to stop if the majority of loads are fmj. As I don't use fmj for sd, that data is irrelevant to me other than a casual observation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,817 Posts
"I absolutely despise a 9mm for defensive situations (yes, they will eventually kill but often not quickly enough to prevent the BG from doing you in first)and a .380 as well. These are probably the two calibers I see most often on the autopsy table."

Interesting dichotomy there.
To a degree, yes but he wrote that piece in 2006 and there has been a lot of improvement in bullet design since then. It is true that the 9mm is inferior to the .40S&W and the .45ACP cartridges? I would say yes but by how much, I don't know. I just think that there are too many variables involved in handgun bullet effectiveness as it impacts a human body. There are no simple or pat answers to this but there are some fundamental facts which seem to frequently crop up.

Me? I'll try to keep abreast of new developments as best I can in the hope that I will have on my person a caliber and load choice that will do its job as long as I do mine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
You might also enjoy reading this. Though a lot has taken place with ammunition improvements since this was written, one can still glean some valuable information from it. It is a rather long read and is the product of questions which arose on a website to the writer.

Terminal ballistics as viewed in a morgue
Wasn't going to post anything about this (probably lead to a whole page about ballistics) but after reading this^^, why not. Had an XD-s 9mm that I sold for very close to what I paid for it. Loved the gun - just wasn't comfortable with the caliber. My plan was to sell that and buy the XD-s in a .45. Did that the next day.

Stories I've read help set in stone that .45 is better choice - not to mention the common sense of it simply making a larger hole. People argue about changes and ballistics with the 9mm is just as capable, but real life stories/situations seem to tell a different story - at least what I've read. This is just another one, coming from probably the best source to find most effective caliber - experienced mortician, that confirms switching my edc to .45 that much more. Good read, thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,171 Posts
I've seen this video before but it's a good review.

Key take aways for me were:

Handgun wounds don't compare to rifles or shotguns

Handguns often fail to have enough penetration (he made this point numerous times)

Unless you hit the brain stem, death via handgun is simply due to bleeding

6/7 persons shot with a handgun survive

Birdshot doesn't have enough penetration (see x ray he shows)

The .40 JHP that expanded yet failed to reach the heart should be an eye opener for everyone. Everyone assumes expanding bullets are better, but if the penetration suffers (and it does) then it may not be such a great choice. The famous Miami shootout was another example where the good guys might have been better off with plain old FMJ.

We don't know the details around the x ray of the .40 JHP he showed. Maybe an arm got in the way. Regardless, lack of handgun bullet penetration was a repeated theme. Something to consider.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,639 Posts
Wasn't going to post anything about this (probably lead to a whole page about ballistics) but after reading this^^, why not. Had an XD-s 9mm that I sold for very close to what I paid for it. Loved the gun - just wasn't comfortable with the caliber. My plan was to sell that and buy the XD-s in a .45. Did that the next day.

Stories I've read help set in stone that .45 is better choice - not to mention the common sense of it simply making a larger hole. People argue about changes and ballistics with the 9mm is just as capable, but real life stories/situations seem to tell a different story - at least what I've read. This is just another one, coming from probably the best source to find most effective caliber - experienced mortician, that confirms switching my edc to .45 that much more. Good read, thanks
Did he mention that EVERY shooting autopsy he's performed was on people who died? Or how many of those he's done in shooting instances involved fmj? That's an important piece of information, where results are cncerned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
617 Posts
Did he mention that EVERY shooting autopsy he's performed was on people who died? Or how many of those he's done in shooting instances involved fmj? That's an important piece of information, where results are cncerned.
Put that together with the help of the word "autopsy". FMJ or JHP...I agree, good things to know.
 
1 - 20 of 122 Posts
Top