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Discussion Starter #1
At least injustice was swift.

VA's red flag law took effect on July 1, and this was one of the first uses of it. So the deal is on Sept. 2, the grandfather of the family asked for a red flag against the father on the basis that the son told the grandfather that the father had pointed a revolver at the son, although apparently this had not occurred recently, but some unspecified time previously.

The father denies it ever happened. The father's side of it is that back in 2018, he called the cops on his son for having illegal THC and the grandfather and the son have been pissed off at him ever since. That case was dismissed last year. This was payback. Also, the father claims that the son has tried to convince his brother and sister to conspire to kill him, that the son stole two guns from him and the son has threatened him that "there would be hell to pay" if the father ran out of money to give him.

Neither the son or the grandfather showed up in court to testify yesterday, despite subpoenas being issued for them, so the case was dismissed and the judge ordered that guns be immediately returned. The prosecutor said that they did not show up because they were afraid, but I say if they if they thought a red flag would keep them safer, the smartest thing to do would be to follow through. You can't have it both ways. The father said in court this is proof that the red flag law enables anyone in the family with a grudge to use the law to get revenge.

So this family is a crap show, no doubt, but it seems that there is blame to go around. The judge said that if the two had shown up and repeated the allegations, he would have had LE keep the guns for 180 days. No doubt this will prompt liberal legislators to call for tightening the law and not requiring testimony like some other states. Liberals have already criticized the law for not allowing no-knock warrants the red flag orders.

 

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Family matters can get damn ugly. Especially when drugs get mixed in. Not enough information to judge the family as a whole. The drug user sounds like a typical selfish druggie trying to keep the high. I feel bad for the family that has to deal with that. It's a tough road to travel.

This situation also highlights how easily the laws can be abused.
 

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Family matters can get damn ugly. Especially when drugs get mixed in. Not enough information to judge the family as a whole. The drug user sounds like a typical selfish druggie trying to keep the high. I feel bad for the family that has to deal with that. It's a tough road to travel.

This situation also highlights how easily the laws can be abused.
Yes and that there are no repercussions for abusing them. Even if penalties are written into the bill you can bet that part of the law will not be enforced.
 

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Glad the man got his guns back; seems these red flag laws are going to cause a lot of trouble while resolving nothing except the harrassment of good people.
 
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Yes and that there are no repercussions for abusing them. Even if penalties are written into the bill you can bet that part of the law will not be enforced.
Yep. Abusing red flag would be almost impossible to prove, unless you just made a bold-face lie that could be exposed beyond one person's word against another. I am surprised the judge in this case did not cite them for ignoring their subpoenas.
 

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Yep. Abusing red flag would be almost impossible to prove, unless you just made a bold-face lie that could be exposed beyond one person's word against another. I am surprised the judge in this case did not cite them for ignoring their subpoenas.
Even lies don't matter. Remember the woman that tried to get a cops guns siezed? She claimed they were related when they weren't.
 

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Even lies don't matter. Remember the woman that tried to get a cops guns siezed? She claimed they were related when they weren't.
I believe she was an ex, and as some of us know, an ex never thinks they are an "Ex." Just can't seem to let go.
 

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Yep. Abusing red flag would be almost impossible to prove, unless you just made a bold-face lie that could be exposed beyond one person's word against another. I am surprised the judge in this case did not cite them for ignoring their subpoenas.
Well, he should have but actually I'm not surprised.
 
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I just skimmed the article - does it say anywhere that his guns have actually been returned? The judge made the order, but we've seen cases where the cops delay and procrastinate and flat out don't give'm back without further fight.
 

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I am still trying to wrap my head around that in some states if you go to court on a red flag you do not have to face your accuser?
 

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I am still trying to wrap my head around that in some states if you go to court on a red flag you do not have to face your accuser?
Documented in another thread, in CA recently, a sheriff's office got a red flag order based on one thing and one thing only: An anonymous post on Twitter by an Antifa member that the person was a racist based on posts he made online. The sheriff's dept. applied for the order and search warrant on that basis. They seized the one pistol the guy owned, a T-shirt with an unspecified logo on it and get this...a pair of jeans. Then, the sheriff's department public affairs person released a statement bragging this was the first use of red flag against someone who held a dangerous political ideology, or words to that effect.

The subject was not charged with any crime and was not reported to have a record, or to have made any threats. I guess you can only face your accuser on Twitter and you automatically lose.
 

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Absent actual commission of a crime with arrest and conviction, all of these "Red Flag" laws are violations of our basic rights within the criminal justice system.

We should not, if we truly support rights and such, allow these laws to be made or continue to exist.

I have sent letters to my representatives on this, have you done the same with yours?
 

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Tennessee has thus far been able to avoid red flag legislation. Oh, it has been filed, but with super majority Republicans in the legislature and a Red governor, chances of passage are unlikely any time soon. My greater fear would be the Dems sweeping the elections and making red flag legislation (among many other infringements) the law of the land at the federal level.
 

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I have sent letters to my representatives on this, have you done the same with yours?

Nah. Waste of time.

I have had face to face discussions with them and told them exactly how I feel. I have invaded the space of some at the Capitol in Little Rock. I have discussed it with the Senate Judiciary and testified in committee. I have been on TV, several papers and discussed it on radio several times.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have sent letters to my representatives on this, have you done the same with yours?

Nah. Waste of time.

I have had face to face discussions with them and told them exactly how I feel. I have invaded the space of some at the Capitol in Little Rock. I have discussed it with the Senate Judiciary and testified in committee. I have been on TV, several papers and discussed it on radio several times.
I have been a proponent of writing and calling representatives on things like this, but I am worn out. I have been through four VCDL Lobby Days, three as a team lead, and talked to these people face-to-face. I have participated in countless email campaigns to legislators. I have shown up at public hearings and spoke to them.

They have all decided their positions. The pro-gun ones will vote pro-gun no matter what and the anti-gun ones will vote that way no matter what. The only way to change this is to vote them out. With only 40-60% of people showing up to vote, we could win most of these elections, even against voter fraud. But we're not doing it.
 
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