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Discussion Starter #1
This incident happened 3 days ago. I was pulling a double shift at work and was driving to Starbucks to grab some coffee and a doughnut. As I enter the parking lot I see an armed patrol officer in a scuffle with a large man. The big guy seemed like a professional brawler the way he moved.

People were looking but no one stepped forward to help.

I was so sleepy at first I thought I was hallucinating. So I slam the brakes, get out with my gun drawn and order the suspect to stop resisting. The guard thanks me and requests that I dial 911.

Of course my conversation with the dispatcher was interesting. It took her a while to figure out where I was even though I gave her the address. Then she asked if it was an emergency. I told her I have the suspect at gunpoint and that a patrol officer was getting him in cuffs. The cops arrived after 3 minutes.

In the meanwhile I started getting yelled at by the onlookers to let the guy go. He had broken into a vacant store with a hammer and was about to assault someone who tried to stop him.

The cops came and I put my gun back in my holster and went to get some coffee.

I think the adrenaline hit me before I reached Starbucks. :)

A detective from Renton PD called me the next morning and took my statement. He thanked me for helping out.
 

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Vince, just a question to clarify. So when you pulled up and saw the 2 guys scuffling, what led you to draw your weapon?
Did 'the brawler' have/display a weapon or was the officer being beaten down? Not judging, but since I wasn't there, wanted to understand your process for drawing down.

Thanks, DP
 

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Sorry I should have given more detail. The patrol officer was trying to detain the suspect but from the looks of it the suspect was overpowering him and was reaching for the service weapon of the officer. Also the patrol officer was quite short compared to the suspect and it didn't look like he could detain him. I noticed a hammer lying nearby as well. I looked around to see if any PD officers were on their way but there was no one and no sirens either.
 

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Sounds like you did good. Had you waited, it might well have gone very, very badly for the guard/officer.

Kudos! :yup:
 

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I applaud your courage and am glad that it all turned out well. There were many different possible outcomes and I'm sure that you have run many of them through your mind since then. Congratulations for being a good American. :smile: Bet you didn't need the coffee to wake up after that one.
 

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Got it, thanks. I was willing to bet (hoping) this is what you'd say. Glad you weren't just another gawker, and I'm sure the office is too. Nice job.

Sorry I should have given more detail. The patrol officer was trying to detain the suspect but from the looks of it the suspect was overpowering him and was reaching for the service weapon of the officer. Also the patrol officer was quite short compared to the suspect and it didn't look like he could detain him. I noticed a hammer lying nearby as well. I looked around to see if any PD officers were on their way but there was no one and no sirens either.
 

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Too many people are too distracted, afraid or just self-absorbed to help in a situation like this. It sounds like you may have saved the security guards life if he had lost control of his weapon. I applaud your courage and willingness to take action!
 

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The way this is described it is probably one of those scenarios where, in SC and other states, the Alter Ego Rule can truly work and be helpful. The scenario seems like it was crystal clear as to an LEO and a BG where the LEO was in imminent danger, which in Alter
Ego, allows you to put yourself in the place of the LEO and act accordingly. Many of the alter ego type cases I read about on these forums are not so clear--you see 2 people fighting and one has the upper hand does not mean that that the one who is more the victim is the hapless individual needing help--Alter Ego sounds great on paper and in the law and in this case sounds just right, but you had better be darned sure of what is what and who is who before you draw a firearm and introduce yourself into the fray. If this scenario's LEO had been undercover and had the upper hand on some guy who looked like he was in trouble and you rush in to help the guy with a drawn firearm---I think you get the idea--you could be in for a big surprise and a lot of trouble. You can also get yourself killed if you choose wrong as you "brandish" your firearm thinking you are doing something worthwhile under alter ego.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It took me about 5-6 seconds from the time I assessed the situation to the time I stopped my car and drew my weapon. But those few seconds seemed longer because of the fear of what would happen if I had to open fire. If there were 2 civilians fighting, I would probably just wait and call 911 until I was sure what was going on. But in this case it was clear I had to act.

The crowd around the scene wasn't helping at all and were supporting the bad guy. So I felt a threat from not only the bg but from some members in the crowd as well.

I was shaking for a while after that. But I thank God that everything ended well and no shots were fired.
 

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Job well done! If he had gotten to that duty weapon it could have been a tragedy in the making. As a side note; if the investigating officer thanked you for what you did that is a clear indication to me your response was correct. If it hadn't been you would know it REALLY quick. Ask any LEO here (current or retired), a cop will be the last person to hold their peace if you have done something wrong.
 
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No, no, no... The cops were supposed to shoot you death the instant they arrived! That's what everyone always says will happen.

Good for you! I wish more folks were more willing to step in and help someone other than "loved ones." That's part of the problem with today's society, afraid to get involved.
 

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Vince: Good job!!! Glad you were able to be there at the right time and to do the right thing. I'm just curious about one thing--if you know, was the "Patrol Officer" a private security guard or a Law Enforcement Officer?

I'm just curious that if it was a bona fide LEO, why he had not radioed for back-up (not that you would know the answer to that).

So how long did it take for the adreniline to wash out of your system?
 

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Good job. And it turned out right.

What always gives me pause is: There are a lot of idiots in the world. What if the bad guy doesn't do what you tell him even though you have a gun pointed at him? Do you shoot? If not, do you join in the fray physically? A lot of "what ifs". But probably the worse thing that could have happened would have been for you to do nothing at all as the situation seemed to present an imminent danger to the uniformed guard.

Again, good job. Glad it went well.
 

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Great job. I am glad everything turned out well and you did not have to fire a shot. It is disturbing that the onlookers were not just unwilling to help but seemed to be rooting for the bad guy.
 

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In the meanwhile I started getting yelled at by the onlookers to let the guy go. He had broken into a vacant store with a hammer and was about to assault someone who tried to stop him.
Isn't this a sad comment on how far we have slipped as a society? Let the wrong doer go? Why?
Apparently the crowd were all a bunch of good for nothings also.

I applaud the OP for doing the right thing and it sounds like at least one other person tried to stop the guy also. To bad the rest of the onlookers are cheering for the wrong side.
 

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Sorry I should have given more detail. The patrol officer was trying to detain the suspect but from the looks of it the suspect was overpowering him and was reaching for the service weapon of the officer. Also the patrol officer was quite short compared to the suspect and it didn't look like he could detain him. I noticed a hammer lying nearby as well. I looked around to see if any PD officers were on their way but there was no one and no sirens either.

If you actually saw the combatant trying to remove the officer's handgun from its holster, he was fair game to shoot...not saying that was necessary in your situation, but it can be deamed legal in Texas as protection of a third person. In Texas, it illegal to disarm or attempt to disarm a police officer (of his firearm of "stun gun"/Taser) and is a 3rd degree felony (2 - 10 years).
 

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Vince: Good job!!! Glad you were able to be there at the right time and to do the right thing. I'm just curious about one thing--if you know, was the "Patrol Officer" a private security guard or a Law Enforcement Officer?

I'm just curious that if it was a bona fide LEO, why he had not radioed for back-up (not that you would know the answer to that).

So how long did it take for the adreniline to wash out of your system?


From experience, sometimes you do not get the chance to use the radio...a BG on you before you can determine what is actually happening...been there happen to me...it is really nice when you hear those sirens in the distance though coming to your aid.
 
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