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Hi Everybody,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Last week I was involved in an incident, and I would be interested in your perspective as to what I could have done better or worse. Specifically, I'd like to know if I was guilty of brandishing.

I live in a rural area, with only a single neighbor within eyesight. I have a barn where we park our cars, which is 100 yards from the house.

Last week I was out late and arrived home at 11:30 PM. I pulled into the barn and shortly after I had parked I heard a motorcycle speed by, and then quickly slow down as it passed my barn. I immediately stopped to listen, and I heard the bike idling a short distance away. I looked out the barn door and saw the driver turning his bike around and slowly start driving back towards me.

I instantly decided that this was a code orange situation. I had an LCP II in my pocket and pulled it out as I did not want to have to make a quick draw from a pocket holster.

The biker approached and drove up my gravel drive to within 8 feet of me while I stood in the doorway of the barn. I had my right arm straight down with my LCP II just behind my right leg.

The conversation went like this:

Biker: I need some directions

Me: Where to

Biker: Pauses, looks past me into the barn and asks “Do you have any gas in there” ?

Me: No (a lie)

Biker: I’m low on gas and I could really use a little.

Me: I don’t have any gas, but there is a station a few miles down the road

Biker: Yeah, well, I don’t have my wallet.

Me: I don’t have any gas

At that point the biker turned off the engine and I instantly made the decision that if he tried to get off the bike I was going to draw on him. He sat there and the conversation resumed

Biker: You see, I don’t need much gas, just a dollars worth would get me home.

Me: I don’t have any gas, but I probably have a dollar if you want to go to the station.

Biker: that would help.

Up to this point I had been thinking very clearly, and felt like I was in control, but I now realized that I had to get my wallet out and fumble with it to get out a dollar bill. I had not considered that when I said I had a dollar. I got my wallet out with my left hand, and raised my right hand, holding the LCP II in plain sight to steady the wallet while I got out a dollar. At this point I didn’t mind showing that I was armed.

I put my wallet back with my left hand, then reached out with my left to give him the dollar while holding the LCP II in my right hand.

I feel certain that he saw the LCP II, but he did not acknowledge it. He was silent for a few seconds then continued:

Biker: OK, well it looks like I should be going

Me: I think that would be a good idea.

He stared at me again for about 10 seconds, then started his bike and drove off.

I locked up the barn, went inside the house, got my full size M&P 9 and sat on the front porch for a while to make sure he didn’t come back, which he didn’t.
 

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The only thing I saw that may have gotten you into trouble was getting close enough to the guy to give him the dollar bill.
You do not know what kind of skills he had and could have disarmed you if he had any.
I will never allow a perceived threat to get that close to me. I would have told him to leave.
Glad it had a peaceful ending.
 

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I think you did as fine as anyone could be expected to do that may not be accustomed to dealing with these situations.
You took a good proactive measure based on your sensory input, and controlled your actions in a measured manner, being fully aware and thinking ahead.

As far as brandishing? In you circumstances being on your own private property,i believe it would be very difficult to make a brandishing case.
In the very remote possibility that he made a complaint, it would be his word against yours, with him having to first be able to explain why he was there.
I’d say it’s safe to say you will never hear anymore about it.

If you have SYG and Castle Doctrine in the law for your locality, that’s just more icing on your cake.
 

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"Sorry, can't help you," is my standard reply. I've never been forced beyond that.
 

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I think you handled it splendidly; it's easy for us to say what we "would've done" or what you "should've done", but under those circumstances with all that must've been racing through your mind, I believe you handled things very well.

P.S. One reason I switched my pocket carry from an LCP to a snub-nosed revolver is that it looks more like what a gun is supposed to look like.:)
 

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Why did you leave the safe heaven of the barn or no go straight into your house?

Notify sheriff’s office of the incident?

you did notify the biker they were trespassing?
.
As mentioned, you engaged the biker and got way too close [knife and/or physical over powering close] where you put yourself & family in harm’s way with too small of caliber for the biker’s leather and # of cartridges on board.

hypothetically, IF, standing outside in the middle of your yard O/A midnight, having this conversation, and showed the biker your only defense, and you got spooked, panicked, and inadvertently/purposely shot and injured the biker, there would be, i’m sure, a he said you said debate requiring judicial Intervention which means $$$ for shyster fees to defend yourself.

While this might seem like an isolated incident...one hopes you see the immediate need for a shotgun w/a box of shells in the barn as well as in your home in case said biker, possibly with friends, returns to get some gas.

Ps: assure everyone in the household know how to operate and fire at least once, said shotgun w/o hearing protection
 

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For the money thing, Massad Ayoob recommended wrapping some bills around a matchbook and binding them there with a rubber band and keeping them in an easily accessible pocket. That way you yourself will have a spare dollar or two if you need it and if someone asks for money just flip it over to them and say goodbye.

I used to do that back when I was making deliveries and I personally used the money and matches myself a lot more than I gave anyone. A couple of times the guy got pissed off and let the thing fall to the ground and lay there acting like I was gonna bend over and pick it up. I just smiled back when that happened
 

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I think you did as fine as anyone could be expected to do that may not be accustomed to dealing with these situations.
You took a good proactive measure based on your sensory input, and controlled your actions in a measured manner, being fully aware and thinking ahead.

As far as brandishing? In you circumstances being on your own private property,i believe it would be very difficult to make a brandishing case.
In the very remote possibility that he made a complaint, it would be his word against yours, with him having to first be able to explain why he was there.
I’d say it’s safe to say you will never hear anymore about it.

If you have SYG and Castle Doctrine in the law for your locality, that’s just more icing on your cake.
but officer all i did, as i misjudge distances and was running low on fuel, was stop, since i just saw someone pull in a few minutes ago ahead of me, was ask if they had a gas can available and give be a couple gallons, which i would of given the $10 bucks for their gas & time and been on my way.

but he got agitated and then produced a handgun and threatened me with it...and made me stay here till you arrived!

that kinda he said they said where now the shysters have to get involved?
 

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I agree with the majority that you did very well considering the circumstances. As for getting close enough to hand him a dollar, it sounds like he remained straddled on his bike, not a great position to be in for a surprise attack. I certainly wouldn't call him seeing your gun "brandishing" because it doesn't sound like you pointed it at him or otherwise threatened him, particularly since you were on your own property. (Here in the great state of Kansas it is not illegal to even have an unconcealed gun in your hand on any property, sidewalk, roadway, etc. so long as it's not bring used in a threatening manner.)
 

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My property is similar to yours. The barn is about fifty yards in front of my house. My gravel drive goes from the house, past the barn, and then continues another hundred yards to the paved county road. The land around my property is forested, cut with deep ravines, and undeveloped. In six years living here I have only had one unexpected visitor.

I was in the house mid-day when I received an alarm tone alerting me to a vehicle approaching on my drive from the county road. I tucked a handgun with IWB holster under my shirt and went out a side door. As I walked around the front of the house I saw an older sedan in my drive between the barn and my house. The male driver saw me and stopped the car and got out. There was a male passenger in the passenger seat. They were mid thirties. The driver said he was there to see the car I had advertised on Craigslist. I told him that I did not have a car for sale and that he must be in the wrong place. No problem had it ended there and they left. Instead, he became insistent and argumentative. As the driver became increasingly agitated, I maneuvered myself to the rear driver's side of the car, keeping a distance of about 15 feet. I wanted to keep the driver between myself and the car so that I could watch him and the passenger in the same field of view. I also wanted him to see that as he was talking, I obviously observed and memorized his license plate number. I never displayed or implied a weapon.

After a total of no more than about three or four minutes I said, emphatically, that I did not have a car for sale and we had nothing further to discuss. About that time the passenger called to the driver through the open car window, telling him to get in the car. The driver got in and they left. No dramatic exit with wheel spinning or bird flipping etc.. They simply turned around and left. It could have been nothing but, of course, it didn't feel right.

I made a detailed entry in my daily journal much like a witness statement (keeping a daily journal is a professional habit I will carry to my grave, I encourage others to consider adopting the practice). I noted the date, time, the direction the vehicle left once arriving at the county road and every detail I could remember about the vehicle and its occupants.

I also called the sheriff's office to report my experience, including license plate info, as a matter of record. My report may have been dismissed but one never knows how a report of a minor event may fit into a broader scenario unfolding at the sheriff's level (stolen car, missing person, break-ins, trafficking etc.). I also wanted my report on record in the event that I experienced vandalism or a break in attempt in the following 30 days. I also felt that the journal entry and sheriff report could only augur in my favor if the unexpected visitors returned and the driver "somehow" got shot.

Good job on your handling your situation.
 

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@22Plinker got a bunch of good replies. So let me welcome you to DC. We're a nice bunch of people from across the country. Pull up a chair, sit a spell. Now you've met @OldVet. He's the forum curmudgeon. His favorite activities are drinking bourbon, and writing & erasing Christmas card lists. He doesn't actually send any Christmas cards but likes to tease about. @KILTED COWBOY, well, that an interesting visual right there. Actually, he's a nice guy from northcentral Texas. As for me, you can't have just one gun. I speak fluent sarcasm and I reside in Houston, Texas' Big City. We don't acknowledge the eastern California city that is within our borders, Austin if we can avoid it.

Please discontinue lurking and participate in the discussions. Now, we do not always agree with each other, we just ask that everyone be respectful. We do have forum rules and I suggest you review them. More than one of us has incurred "infractions" from the moderator overlords for seemingly innocent statements that contained "questionable" humor.

Welcome to DC.
 

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Welcome to DC!

IMO you did great, and survived without injury.

My guess is the biker didn’t see you until after he turned around to sneak into the barn, and came up with a BS excuse.

It sounds like you may have second guessed your instincts. Your gut feeling made you draw and be ready. But your rational social brain made you hesitant to trust your instincts, so you compromised and offered a dollar to end the flimsy story, which opened you to risk.

It was a great learning experience. Next time you can trust your instincts more and be more assertive. “I can’t help you, so you need to leave. Now.”

Might also consider speed dial on your cell phone. Put it on speaker, and get someone in the house up to grab backup firepower.
 
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