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Why did you leave the safe heaven of the barn or no go straight into your house?

Notify sheriff’s office of the incident?

you did notify the biker they were trespassing?
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As mentioned, you engaged the biker and got way too close [knife and/or physical over powering close] where you put yourself & family in harm’s way with too small of caliber for the biker’s leather and # of cartridges on board.

hypothetically, IF, standing outside in the middle of your yard O/A midnight, having this conversation, and showed the biker your only defense, and you got spooked, panicked, and inadvertently/purposely shot and injured the biker, there would be, i’m sure, a he said you said debate requiring judicial Intervention which means $$$ for shyster fees to defend yourself.

While this might seem like an isolated incident...one hopes you see the immediate need for a shotgun w/a box of shells in the barn as well as in your home in case said biker, possibly with friends, returns to get some gas.

Ps: assure everyone in the household know how to operate and fire at least once, said shotgun w/o hearing protection
I 100% agree with the advice to keep a semi auto shotgun in the barn or maybe even an AR. Lots of places to surreptitiously conceal and secure it while still having ready access.
 

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I would also strongly consider putting some solar powered sensor lights around that barn in case that little encounter was a RECCE for some future crime. Casing the joint and you having that little.380 might not be a deterrent for a group that’s armed a bit better. The barn being that far from the house might give them a degree of comfort.
 

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Some suggested studying your state laws. A good idea, of course.
One place to view state laws is State Legislatures, State Laws, and State Regulations: Websites / Telephone Numbers
Choose your state and the category within your state.

I agree that you did well overall. I haven't had that same experience, but I almost drew on a deputy who came around before sunrise to deliver papers. Our Great Dane woke me and the deputy stopped when the dog and I came out. I had my pistol in hand, but was able to pocket it before the deputy knew.
 

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Hi Everybody,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Last week I was involved in an incident, and I would be interested in your perspective as to what I could have done better or worse. Specifically, I'd like to know if I was guilty of brandishing.

I live in a rural area, with only a single neighbor within eyesight. I have a barn where we park our cars, which is 100 yards from the house.

Last week I was out late and arrived home at 11:30 PM. I pulled into the barn and shortly after I had parked I heard a motorcycle speed by, and then quickly slow down as it passed my barn. I immediately stopped to listen, and I heard the bike idling a short distance away. I looked out the barn door and saw the driver turning his bike around and slowly start driving back towards me.

I instantly decided that this was a code orange situation. I had an LCP II in my pocket and pulled it out as I did not want to have to make a quick draw from a pocket holster.

The biker approached and drove up my gravel drive to within 8 feet of me while I stood in the doorway of the barn. I had my right arm straight down with my LCP II just behind my right leg.

The conversation went like this:

Biker: I need some directions

Me: Where to

Biker: Pauses, looks past me into the barn and asks “Do you have any gas in there” ?

Me: No (a lie)

Biker: I’m low on gas and I could really use a little.

Me: I don’t have any gas, but there is a station a few miles down the road

Biker: Yeah, well, I don’t have my wallet.

Me: I don’t have any gas

At that point the biker turned off the engine and I instantly made the decision that if he tried to get off the bike I was going to draw on him. He sat there and the conversation resumed

Biker: You see, I don’t need much gas, just a dollars worth would get me home.

Me: I don’t have any gas, but I probably have a dollar if you want to go to the station.

Biker: that would help.

Up to this point I had been thinking very clearly, and felt like I was in control, but I now realized that I had to get my wallet out and fumble with it to get out a dollar bill. I had not considered that when I said I had a dollar. I got my wallet out with my left hand, and raised my right hand, holding the LCP II in plain sight to steady the wallet while I got out a dollar. At this point I didn’t mind showing that I was armed.

I put my wallet back with my left hand, then reached out with my left to give him the dollar while holding the LCP II in my right hand.

I feel certain that he saw the LCP II, but he did not acknowledge it. He was silent for a few seconds then continued:

Biker: OK, well it looks like I should be going

Me: I think that would be a good idea.

He stared at me again for about 10 seconds, then started his bike and drove off.

I locked up the barn, went inside the house, got my full size M&P 9 and sat on the front porch for a while to make sure he didn’t come back, which he didn’t.
As a long time instructor and law enforcement officer, here's my take. Did you brandish? No. Could you have been arrested, possibly convicted of brandishing? Yes. Brandishing involved threatening, which you didn't do, BUT, had he called the cops, the conversation would have gone something like, "Officer, I was lost and out of gas. I asked the guy for help and he pulled a gun on me." Cop - "what did the gun look like?" Him - "small and black." Cop (to you) " Did he threaten you? Was he aggressive?" You - "no." Cop - "Do you own a small, black pistol?" You - "Yes." Cop - "You're under arrest." My best advise is get a good holster.
 

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Hi Everybody,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Last week I was involved in an incident, and I would be interested in your perspective as to what I could have done better or worse. Specifically, I'd like to know if I was guilty of brandishing.

I live in a rural area, with only a single neighbor within eyesight. I have a barn where we park our cars, which is 100 yards from the house.

Last week I was out late and arrived home at 11:30 PM. I pulled into the barn and shortly after I had parked I heard a motorcycle speed by, and then quickly slow down as it passed my barn. I immediately stopped to listen, and I heard the bike idling a short distance away. I looked out the barn door and saw the driver turning his bike around and slowly start driving back towards me.

I instantly decided that this was a code orange situation. I had an LCP II in my pocket and pulled it out as I did not want to have to make a quick draw from a pocket holster.

The biker approached and drove up my gravel drive to within 8 feet of me while I stood in the doorway of the barn. I had my right arm straight down with my LCP II just behind my right leg.

The conversation went like this:

Biker: I need some directions

Me: Where to

Biker: Pauses, looks past me into the barn and asks “Do you have any gas in there” ?

Me: No (a lie)

Biker: I’m low on gas and I could really use a little.

Me: I don’t have any gas, but there is a station a few miles down the road

Biker: Yeah, well, I don’t have my wallet.

Me: I don’t have any gas

At that point the biker turned off the engine and I instantly made the decision that if he tried to get off the bike I was going to draw on him. He sat there and the conversation resumed

Biker: You see, I don’t need much gas, just a dollars worth would get me home.

Me: I don’t have any gas, but I probably have a dollar if you want to go to the station.

Biker: that would help.

Up to this point I had been thinking very clearly, and felt like I was in control, but I now realized that I had to get my wallet out and fumble with it to get out a dollar bill. I had not considered that when I said I had a dollar. I got my wallet out with my left hand, and raised my right hand, holding the LCP II in plain sight to steady the wallet while I got out a dollar. At this point I didn’t mind showing that I was armed.

I put my wallet back with my left hand, then reached out with my left to give him the dollar while holding the LCP II in my right hand.

I feel certain that he saw the LCP II, but he did not acknowledge it. He was silent for a few seconds then continued:

Biker: OK, well it looks like I should be going

Me: I think that would be a good idea.

He stared at me again for about 10 seconds, then started his bike and drove off.

I locked up the barn, went inside the house, got my full size M&P 9 and sat on the front porch for a while to make sure he didn’t come back, which he didn’t.
I would not consider the action "brandishing" some you were on your private property; however, if you live in a pro-criminal state like California, the sky's the limit on what they might consider a criminal action. In the future, l would recommend keeping your gun holstered. Why...? I have seen an increasing number of insolent thugs that look for any reason they can to engage in violence AFTER they can attain an upper hand. Thus I feel it's best not to tip your hand about what you are/are not carrying... and spare a gallon of gas, where you can, while getting in some conversation that can reveal the individual's characte/intent.
 

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Day time and lost and needing gas, but has wallet and doesn't know a gas station is down the road is one thing. That time of night about out of gas and 'lost' and no money? All a lie. He wanted to see inside the garage to come back later, or worse right then. And now days with cell phones, go to the store and call someone and wait there until they come. This guy needs to be kept an eye on.
 

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was up to no good,ready excuses for all replies you need to install solar motion lights or if you have power there a net light with camera so you will be alerted and can check from the house
 

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My standard answer for anyone asking for money: Sorry, I don't carry cash.
That's probably a good answer that I should try. Maybe I'd come off as nicer. I just see 'em coming, and before they even ask (or immediately after) I just put my left hand out palm outward and say "NO."
 

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Carry a .44 magnum will crap them away from you as fast as they see the big hole at the end of your revolver!
This may be the case with people who were probably never a threat to begin with but I would not count on this logic to negotiate a truly dangerous situation involving a predatory criminal.

Bad people who have used violence and the threat of violence to manage darn near every issue in their life are not so easily shook up over the exhibition of a firearm. Especially if they have already painted someone as a marshmallow.

The first few seconds of an encounter is often a test. If the encounter continues, everything after that can be an exploration of sorts and [if] they can turn one NO to a YES, it can peg you as a person to be manipulated or exploited. It is often interpreted as an indication of a weak constitution. The presence of a gun or even a (big) gun doesnt necessarily change any of that.

It is said that agreeable people are often exploited and agreeable people will almost always negotiate( to some degree) for the other person and against their own desires rather than face difficulties. This has limits of course but agreeable people naturally seem to lean toward being a people pleaser. Disagreeable people are harder to exploit and dont mind hurting feelings if it serves them. Disagreeable people are not prone to negotiation or bending and are not good targets for criminals. BAd people with bad intentions will often try to classify you in this way and wearing a gun doesnt really change this sort of classification.

As I said earlier, there is not much to be gained from being "nasty" toward someone but if I do not want someone on my property, I will tell them straight away and when I say no, it no. I will not negotiate with them because I have no desire to resolve anything mutually. They have intruded and they will leave of tend with the law. I will remove myself from their presence and if they try to harm me, I will stop them from doing that. Pulling up to someone (uninvited) in the middle of the night at some out of the way place is foolishness.
 

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It sounds like you did a great job being that he was on your property. Now that you've had a chance to go through the motions, a good strategy if this ever happens again might be to keep the firearm hidden until you've had a chance to tell him he should be on his way after concluding the communication. That way if the guy ever tried to claim you pulled a gun on him, you at least had instructed him to leave which changes the situation legally in my opinion (it's just one more layer of protection). Whether that means wrapping some matches in a few dollar bills as was suggested (so you can keep your right hand holding the gun out of sight behind your leg as you did up to the point of giving him a dollar) or open carrying on your property.

Regarding the latter, I live in the suburbs, so open carrying on my property wouldn't be an advantage for me, but if I lived in a rural area like yourself, I'd keep a larger gun holstered and at the ready in my glove compartment that I can slip on and open carry into my house since it's 100 yards away and far enough where there would be no witnesses if someone decided to exploit you. Opportunists aren't looking to exploit strength, however (they leave that to the desperate ones), so my guess is that if he approached you and saw you were open carrying an M&P9 at 3 o'clock, or even AIWB without your shirt concealing it, he wouldn't have even took an additional ten seconds to stare at you after the conversation ended.

The other thing that comes to mind is that you have the home court advantage in most jurisdictions. As such, if it were me now having the advantage of your hindsight, once he agreed to your solution (the $1), I would not rule out issuing commands throughout the exchange since he's on your property. I might say something like, "You can't be too careful these days so I'm gonna to ask you to remain on your bike while I back up to get my wallet." Depending on the impression you have of the individual and the circumstances, you might even mention that you're backing up to holster your weapon if it was hidden as it was in your case. At first blush that might seem aggressive, but it's actually a deescalating maneuver while still signalling that you're remaining vigilant (having a gun). At that point you have to make the judgement call about where and how to leave the money, but as others have suggested I would make sure that whatever you do, never allow the gap to close to within striking distance.
 
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I put my wallet back with my left hand, then reached out with my left to give him the dollar while holding the LCP II in my right hand.
You should always remember the 21 foot rule, although you would have already had your gun drawn to allow for a shorter distance. Either you have him back up or you put the dollar bill on the ground and then back away, .... but don't EVER get so close to him that you can hand it to him.

My two cents.
 

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Close, lock up barn doors ASAP, turn off lights
Unholster your 357mag or 45acp and sit down away from any outside fire into your barn doors
Any Qs from outside get "it's late & there's nothing in here, going to bed" any more Qs = "on the phone with sheriff"
Any break ins get some gunfire, misses or hits depending on threat
Now thinking a concealed barn rifle w/30+ clips might be in order
No Trespassing signs posted, perhaps even a gate
 

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I would also strongly consider putting some solar powered sensor lights around that barn in case that little encounter was a RECCE for some future crime.
I've tried several outdoor solar lights. These were the best I found. Two lights for $36 on amazon. Some lights are way too sensitive. A leaf blowing at 50 feet sets them off. These lights are not as sensitive. You have to get closer in to activate them. But if they come on, they are bright and you will know it's probably something real that set them off.

Aqonsie Solar Lights Outdoor, 48 Led 180° Adjustable Angle Outdoor Remote Solar Security Lights Wireless Motion Sensor Remote Control
 

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66Guns said: As a long time instructor and law enforcement officer, here's my take. Did you brandish? No. Could you have been arrested, possibly convicted of brandishing? Yes. Brandishing involved threatening, which you didn't do, BUT, had he called the cops, the conversation would have gone something like, "Officer, I was lost and out of gas. I asked the guy for help and he pulled a gun on me." Cop - "what did the gun look like?" Him - "small and black." Cop (to you) " Did he threaten you? Was he aggressive?" You - "no." Cop - "Do you own a small, black pistol?" You - "Yes." Cop - "You're under arrest." My best advise is get a good holster.

This is good advice. I think a good idea would have been to call the sheriff/police as soon as the guy left. Even being the first to call after an incident might avoid the scenario you described. Good on the OP for posting his experience.
 

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Obviously local laws vary. I'm familiar with Michigan and Idaho.

Michigan: “Brandish” means to point, wave about, or display in a threatening manner with the intent to induce fear in another person.
Idaho: Exhibition or use of deadly weapon. Every person who, not in necessary self-defense, in the presence of two (2) or more persons, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon in a rude, angry and threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses the same, in any fight or quarrel, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

So at least in these 2 states it is rather clear to me (NOT LAWYER) that just holding your pistol down to your side would not be brandishing. You didn't threaten or wave about or point at the person. That it was on your own property probably makes it even stronger.

Check your local laws.
 

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Obviously local laws vary. I'm familiar with Michigan and Idaho.

Michigan: “Brandish” means to point, wave about, or display in a threatening manner with the intent to induce fear in another person.
Idaho: Exhibition or use of deadly weapon. Every person who, not in necessary self-defense, in the presence of two (2) or more persons, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon in a rude, angry and threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses the same, in any fight or quarrel, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

So at least in these 2 states it is rather clear to me (NOT LAWYER) that just holding your pistol down to your side would not be brandishing. You didn't threaten or wave about or point at the person. That it was on your own property probably makes it even stronger.

Check your local laws.
"Threatening manner," not being defined by statute, is wide open to interpretation.
 
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