Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My son is in the Navy stationed in San Diego. He turns 21 in August and I'd like to get him a new Glock. He HAS transfered his "residency" to CA, as he's obtained a CA driver's license and car registration.
How can I give him a handgun legally? (I already know about the 10-round mag limit.)
Do I need to go through a dealer there in CA, or can I just give it to him while he's here?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,177 Posts
I would let him go to a dealer there and have him pick out the gun,then send him the money to pay for it.California is really dicey on gun laws and bringing in guns from outside,they have a list of guns that can't be sold in CA and or I assume brought into the state
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,472 Posts
Gift certificate for a shop in his area and let him do the paperwork.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,076 Posts
Yes it needs to go through a dealer since it's an interstate transfer. He is a California resident. You are an Arizona resident.

Military might be exempt from the magazine capacity limits, I'll have to double check. My company is the nation's leader in Middleman Transfers to California but I don't deal with a lot of military.

I have a few FFLs I deal with in San Diego area if you need references for good dealers to use. My contact information is listed in my sig line. Give me a call tomorrow or this coming week and I can help any way I can.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Q: Can I legally transfer ownership of a firearm to another family member without the waiting period, without processing the transfer through a firearms dealer or without registration?

A: Yes, providing the transfer is to a person's parent, child, grandparent or grandchild who is not a person prohibited from possessing firearms, and the firearm being transferred is a rifle or a shotgun. There is no waiting period, and in this case, no forms are required to be filed with the state Department of Justice. However, if the transfer of a firearm is from one spouse to the other, or if the firearm is a handgun, there is no waiting period, but a report of the transfer must be mailed to the Deptartment of Justice within 30 days using forms which can be obtained by contacting the department (916) 263-4887. If the firearm is a handgun, the person taking title must first obtain a "Handgun Safety Certificate." (Section 12078 P.C.) This section also applies to gifts, bequests, and inheritances. There is no exemption from the waiting period or the "through dealer" transaction requirement for transfers between siblings, aunts, uncles, or friends. Handguns that are classified as curio/relics are subject to the same handgun provisions as described above. Antique firearms are not subject to any waiting period or requirement to file forms. An "assault weapon" or a .50 BMG rifle cannot legally be transferred, except between spouses or to a child of at least 18 years of age, and then only if the firearm was originally registered in both their names under the family joint registration provision of Penal Code Section 12285(e).

Hope this helps. I referenced this from the 37th Revision - 2009 of the California Rifle and Pistol Association's Summary of California Gun Laws & Basic Safety Rules handbook. Although this does not mention anything of interstate transfer, I'm sure you can find out that answer when you call that number. Good Luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
This is a textbook example of how easy it is to provide incorrect info regarding the law in another state. Great job in the above post in providing the EXACT legal code that answers the OP's question. I hope the other posters, who I am sure meant well, will rethink how they answer future questions about state laws they haven't researched. CA has enough problems without FUD from other gun enthusiasts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,472 Posts
This is a textbook example of how easy it is to provide incorrect info regarding the law in another state. Great job in the above post in providing the EXACT legal code that answers the OP's question. I hope the other posters, who I am sure meant well, will rethink how they answer future questions about state laws they haven't researched. CA has enough problems without FUD from other gun enthusiasts.
Curious as to what you feel was wrong with the info given. The OP is a resident of a different state than his son. Federal law trumps state law when state lines are crossed in the transfer of a handgun. The quoted law was for transfer between two parties both in CA.

You must involve a FFL in the transfer of a handgun from one state to another.

The easiest way would be to have the son go to a store that the father has arranged to pay for the gun and let the son fill out the paper work.

The other option is to have a FFL transfer at the fathers location to a FFL in the sons location.

The second option costs more and takes longer.

State laws can add to the requirements but the ATF still requires the paperwork.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,076 Posts
This is a textbook example of how easy it is to provide incorrect info regarding the law in another state. Great job in the above post in providing the EXACT legal code that answers the OP's question. I hope the other posters, who I am sure meant well, will rethink how they answer future questions about state laws they haven't researched. CA has enough problems without FUD from other gun enthusiasts.
Seeing how this is an interstate transfer and not an intrastate transfer, the above penal code doesn't apply. That code applies for intrastate transfers only, ie CA resident to CA resident.

The gun is to cross state lines. That triggers federal jurisdiction which states it must transfer through an FFL. The roster exemption still applies as it is an intrafamily transfer.

The penal code above does not apply and therefore does not answer the OP's question. :bier:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Gift certificate for a shop in his area and let him do the paperwork.
He really wants MY G20. (with the .40 barrel, TFOs, etc.) He shoots it really well.
That also gives ME a good excuse to go get a G20SF.:image035:
I already tried to convince him to get something a little easier to find ammo for than a 10mm, but the .40 barrel should take care of that issue somewhat. I also cautioned him that he'd have to lock it in the armory if he ever moved back onto the base.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I have a few FFLs I deal with in San Diego area if you need references for good dealers to use. My contact information is listed in my sig line. Give me a call tomorrow or this coming week and I can help any way I can.
Thanks; I'll take you up on that. It might be a few weeks, as his birthday is not until March.
I appreciate it!:wave:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
Inter vs intra

Q: Can I legally transfer ownership of a firearm to another family member without the waiting period, without processing the transfer through a firearms dealer or without registration?

A: Yes, providing the transfer is to a person's parent, child, grandparent or grandchild who is not a person prohibited from possessing firearms, and the firearm being transferred is a rifle or a shotgun. There is no waiting period, and in this case, no forms are required to be filed with the state Department of Justice. However, if the transfer of a firearm is from one spouse to the other, or if the firearm is a handgun, there is no waiting period, but a report of the transfer must be mailed to the Deptartment of Justice within 30 days using forms which can be obtained by contacting the department (916) 263-4887. If the firearm is a handgun, the person taking title must first obtain a "Handgun Safety Certificate." (Section 12078 P.C.) This section also applies to gifts, bequests, and inheritances. There is no exemption from the waiting period or the "through dealer" transaction requirement for transfers between siblings, aunts, uncles, or friends. Handguns that are classified as curio/relics are subject to the same handgun provisions as described above. Antique firearms are not subject to any waiting period or requirement to file forms. An "assault weapon" or a .50 BMG rifle cannot legally be transferred, except between spouses or to a child of at least 18 years of age, and then only if the firearm was originally registered in both their names under the family joint registration provision of Penal Code Section 12285(e).

Hope this helps. I referenced this from the 37th Revision - 2009 of the California Rifle and Pistol Association's Summary of California Gun Laws & Basic Safety Rules handbook. Although this does not mention anything of interstate transfer, I'm sure you can find out that answer when you call that number. Good Luck!
This is a textbook example of how easy it is to provide incorrect info regarding the law in another state. Great job in the above post in providing the EXACT legal code that answers the OP's question. I hope the other posters, who I am sure meant well, will rethink how they answer future questions about state laws they haven't researched. CA has enough problems without FUD from other gun enthusiasts.
Yes it needs to go through a dealer since it's an interstate transfer. He is a California resident. You are an Arizona resident.

Military might be exempt from the magazine capacity limits, I'll have to double check. My company is the nation's leader in Middleman Transfers to California but I don't deal with a lot of military.

I have a few FFLs I deal with in San Diego area if you need references for good dealers to use. My contact information is listed in my sig line. Give me a call tomorrow or this coming week and I can help any way I can.
The STATE law may allow a transfer, the federal law [ ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives ] requires that handguns interstate have paperwork via an FFL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,076 Posts
The STATE law may allow a transfer, the federal law requires that handguns interstate have paperwork via an FFL.
Right. Like I've been saying this whole time.:bier:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,472 Posts
He really wants MY G20. (with the .40 barrel, TFOs, etc.) He shoots it really well.
That also gives ME a good excuse to go get a G20SF.:image035:
I already tried to convince him to get something a little easier to find ammo for than a 10mm, but the .40 barrel should take care of that issue somewhat. I also cautioned him that he'd have to lock it in the armory if he ever moved back onto the base.
Ask him to check with base rec services, I've seen several that have an FFL on base that do transfers reasonably. If they don't have one many times the Base Exchange can point him toward one locally that works well with the mil!

Good luck on handing off one and getting a new one!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,171 Posts
Well I tried to answer the OP the best I could. That's why I included the thing there at the end that says "Although this does not mention anything of interstate transfer, I'm sure you can find out that answer when you call that number." The other informative posts probably helped more but I was just quoting a rule from where the pistol is going to end up and giving access to a number that the OP could call and possibly see what further restrictions California has on interstate transfers. If you want complicated restrictions, California takes the cake. :blink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
OK, I had to wait until today to speak with a very competent FFL about this. If the son goes to AZ and takes face-to-face possession of the handgun, as in a INTRAFAMILIAL gift, he can LEGALLY drive it back to CA with NO federal laws at issue. No waiting period or FFL involvement in either state. (The son will need to conform to each state's transportation standards regarding locked boxes, etc.)

The recipient does need to complete a CA DoJ form within (I think) 30 days to register the handgun in his name in CA.

IF the handgun is shipped, it must be shipped to an FFL in CA and the waiting would apply. But the OP had said that the son could take face-to-face delivery in AZ and that was the basis of my response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
293 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
OK, I had to wait until today to speak with a very competent FFL about this. If the son goes to AZ and takes face-to-face possession of the handgun, as in a INTRAFAMILIAL gift, he can LEGALLY drive it back to CA with NO federal laws at issue. No waiting period or FFL involvement in either state. (The son will need to conform to each state's transportation standards regarding locked boxes, etc.)

The recipient does need to complete a CA DoJ form within (I think) 30 days to register the handgun in his name in CA.

IF the handgun is shipped, it must be shipped to an FFL in CA and the waiting would apply. But the OP had said that the son could take face-to-face delivery in AZ and that was the basis of my response.
Interesting...
Thanks for checking with your sources!:wave:
Would my son need some way to PROVE the Glock came from me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,472 Posts
I'd rather trust a call to the ATF over what an FFL says. FFLs are like cops, most have a good idea of what the law is but not what ALL laws are.

BillR, give your nearest ATF satellite office a call and explain what you want to do. Then you will have the answer that will keep everyone happy.

I just went through the gifting thing and that's what I found to be the best source of info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
448 Posts
Since the only real debate is regarding federal, I agree. Call the feds, your local ATFE office. Please post what you find out. If they can actually quote you the code/law (if any applies), that would be awesome.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
471 Posts
OK, I had to wait until today to speak with a very competent FFL about this. If the son goes to AZ and takes face-to-face possession of the handgun, as in a INTRAFAMILIAL gift, he can LEGALLY drive it back to CA with NO federal laws at issue. No waiting period or FFL involvement in either state. (The son will need to conform to each state's transportation standards regarding locked boxes, etc.)

The recipient does need to complete a CA DoJ form within (I think) 30 days to register the handgun in his name in CA.

IF the handgun is shipped, it must be shipped to an FFL in CA and the waiting would apply. But the OP had said that the son could take face-to-face delivery in AZ and that was the basis of my response.
Your "competent" FFL is advising you to commit TWO seperate FELONIES!

The physical location of the two parties involved in a firearms transaction has absolutely NOTHING to do with the legality of that transaction when the parties involve are RESIDENTS of different states. It is the state of RESIDENCY that matters in Federal law, not the physical location of the parties at the time of transfer.

First, the military member receiving the firearm is a resident of CALIFORNIA! State of residency for military members regarding firearms is defined in 18 USC 921(b):
US CODE: Title 18,921. Definitions

(b) For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located.
When the father transfers the gun to the son, without going through an FFL, the father then violates 18 USC 922 (a)(5) and commits a FEDERAL FELONY!

US CODE: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
When the son takes that firearm and goes back to California with that firearm, the son violates 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and commits a separate FEDERAL FELONY!

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
Now that you see the Federal law on the subject, just how competent do you think that FFL is?

THE ONLY WAY TO LEGALLY TRANSFER THE HANDGUN IS TO DELIVER IT TO A CALIFORNIA FFL FOR THE TRANSFER!

Any mention of Father-Son, Intrafamily transfer, contiguous state, blah, blah, blah does not exclude this transfer from the Federal law requirements above.

BTW, 18 USC 922(b)(3) prohibits an Arizona FFL from transferring the handgun directly to the California resident.

Tubby45 <- he is a COMPETENT FFL :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,076 Posts
OK, I had to wait until today to speak with a very competent FFL about this. If the son goes to AZ and takes face-to-face possession of the handgun, as in a INTRAFAMILIAL gift, he can LEGALLY drive it back to CA with NO federal laws at issue. No waiting period or FFL involvement in either state. (The son will need to conform to each state's transportation standards regarding locked boxes, etc.)

The recipient does need to complete a CA DoJ form within (I think) 30 days to register the handgun in his name in CA.

IF the handgun is shipped, it must be shipped to an FFL in CA and the waiting would apply. But the OP had said that the son could take face-to-face delivery in AZ and that was the basis of my response.
Sorry, your FFL is incompetent. I'd like to know who this FFL is. As above, both father and son would be committing a federal felony in that scenario.
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top