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Discussion Starter #1
Ok slightly tongue in cheek here and was not sure whether to post in 'scenarios'' or not.

The old adage - ''use your handgun to get to your rifle'' made me wonder something. I cannot legally (as in TX IIRC) carry my rifle in the truck loaded and ready to rock.

So let us postulate that I am caught in an extreme situation - multiple aggressors, and need to fight my way to my vehicle to retrieve my rifle - which let's say is an SKS or AK. It is stowed under rear seat of crew cab - and a full mag is to hand somewhere close but - not inserted, chamber is empty.

How viable do you think it would be, to get this combo into play when under pressure?? Grab rifle, grab mag - insert, rack and be ready. Depends of course on how close assailants are, I grant you but - ''fumble-itis'' does tend to set in under pressure :biggrin:.

I stress, this is very tongue in cheek and probably not too likely I hope! Imagine if you will you were the poor guy who perished in Tyler at the courthouse incident - and your rifle was not at the ready - how might you play it - with incoming.!! He of course had no such option.
 

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Good Food For Thought

Facing Multiple Armed Assailants? :confused:
I could see myself dying in my vehicle while going for an unloaded rifle secured in one location & my rifle mags in another.

Just my humble 2 pesos but, I would go with a "dead on" keyed in laser on my primary handgun & spare extra capacity mags.

For you...Chris & with your extensive shooting background (under your belt) there is probably nothing you couldn't do with your primary handgun that you could do better with a rifle at defensive distances.
I could see a very dangerous couple/few minutes when your mental focus would be off your immediate deadly threat...while you're concentrating on getting your rifle ready.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Hehe - I stress again QK this is VERY tongue in cheek :smile:.

I conjured this up because it is often reckoned that the handgun is not the most effective tool - certainly it does lack the potential that a rifle has! Furthermore, if we consider distance factors then again, the handgun loses out. Thus the saying ''The handgun is a means to reach your rifle''!

Much as anything this was exploring what one might do when really pressed - needing more firepower and effectiveness - which a rifle could bring. Add to that the likelehood that rifle would not be ''instant ready'' then that presents an interesting complication.

Humor me :smile: - I am playing with extreme situations! Imagine maybe a ''ghetto hoard'', intent on seeing you as history.
 

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Interesting Problem

OK...assuming that you do need to get to your (in vehicle) rifle then maybe a bolted down "fingerprint recognition" lock box for your rifle mags would eliminate some possible adrenaline rush fumble-itus.
That way you could keep your loaded rifle mags in close proximity to your rifle & would still probably comply with the requirements of the law.
I think you can get a basic (no frills) fingerprint recognition lock box for a bit more than $200.00 these days. That might help some.
OK...I'm out of ideas! :smile:

I'll be curious to read what other folks add to this.
 

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I don't have a truck, so in my case trunk guns really are trunk guns. The primary trunk gun to end all trunk guns for me is a G1 FAL with scope set on the lowest (3x) setting, and an inserted, loaded 20 round magazine. There is a round chambered. The safety is on. There is a small bag with eight additional loaded mags.

If I need to get to that and stop a problem, I'm good to go - the FAL is the gun I train with the most in rifle-land, and I can point shoot against a human-sized target within reason as far as I'll likely be a target myself even if the optics go down.

I used to cheap out and keep a Mauser in the trunk, but realized one day that should I ever need the monster in the trunk, I wanted it to be a monster I would pick rather than Murphy my way through.
 

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Chris --

I get the feeling that unless you were dealing with some sort of distance issue where the rifle would come in handy, that your pistol would do the job as well. Because it's not legal for you to store the rifle loaded legally in the truck, you might be better off carrying several extra magazines (you carry a Sig 226 right?) in the truck.

To me, the disadvantages of having to load the rifle from magazines that are stored in a different spot, outweigh the advantages that you might pick up by having the rifle.

Just my 0.02.

--Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Robert is I assume OK to have loaded in trunk in ID - and FAL is darned good choice.

True enough re spare mags ff (yeah, SIG carry).

This lil' thought provoker tho is let's say needing fleshing out - I need to imagine some finite data... however absurd :smile: OK - I am parked up out in the boonies, having stopped to inspect a small creek for useful fishing in the future. I happen however (unwittingly) to have stopped not too far from an extremist neo-nazi meeting. These folks are cranked up on some dope or other and respond to noticing an intruder (as they see it) too close to their camp.

A small group comes my way and starts loosing off from a range of say 50 yards, not all handgun shots either - at which stage I am already ducking and diving toward truck, replying on move with not very effective supressive fire - get-away is ideal choice but that has to take second place to defensive tactics.

So far - handgun and suitable cover might cut it - but I notice beyond the small group another larger group already heading over - so the problem is - distance and too many opposition!! Need rifle!!

There we are then - half-baked scenario :biggrin: - absurd maybe but, the reason for getting to rifle. I guess considering further in this fantasy, there would be only one option which would be taking cover on far side of truck and opening door to get rifle and load and make ready.

Of course - bottom line here I think would be - ''I am screwed" .... LOL - better to get out the prayer mat! :biggrin:
 

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Well, you're in PA, so this may not be quite so likely, but in south Texas it would not be too far fetched to see being involved in a MVA with a truck/van load of "non-visa holding migrant laborers" and their armed escort, possibly with some other contraband along for the ride. Most likely to run, but WCS....

Honestly, your best option with multiple, imminent, threats (to you), I would say is still your carry pistol. When I lived in Wichita, and in Houston, I carried at least 3 mags for a Glock 19. Overwhelming assault is your best defense. Something like the Tyler courthouse shooting is where I would envision a rifle; you are aware of the threat, but have time to "gather yourself". A .30-30 or .308 COM, with another one or two as you approached the downed BG would be fairly decisive and timely.

You could upgrade to something like this, if you feel you HG might not be adequate:
http://www.dsarms.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=BTMP9&storeid=1&image=MP9.gif&CFID=634345&CFTOKEN=72897450

$1495 + liscensing, when I checked. :biggrin:
 

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Given that scenario I think your best chance for survival would be to run.

The real question is, how good are you at praying while running at full speed with bullets whizzing over your head? :tongue:
 

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If I was in the scenario of the Texas courthous, out the back door to the trunk, grab rifle, ( in this case, Mosin Nagant. Body armor schmody armor - 7.62x54R silvertip will go through what our boys are wearing now - ask them.), and open fire. Reality? I don't have a trunk rifle, due to having to leave my vehicle unattended for 12 hours at a time at a van pool pickup spot, and if I drove it to work, the rifle is NOT allowed on the complex - inmates do parking lot cleanup, and allowing them access to a loaded rifle would be baaaad....
So, it's me, my CZ, and 29 doses of 9mm felon repellant....
 

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I don't know the origin of the adage, but I suspect it was coined by someone who assumed the long gun to be loaded. That would mean the person is either LE or a scofflaw, or was living in a state where civilians can transport loaded long guns. If your vehicle is in the combat zone, then stopping your defensive fire long enough to extract, assemble and/or load your rifle/shotgun is probably not a viable option. If your vehicle is not in the combat zone, and you have the opportunity to disengage long enough to retreat to your vehicle for additional firepower, then it becomes a more viable option.
 

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Shot a lot of IIA with same results--no suprises, nothing new there.

Like magazine rifle, with loaded mags next to rifle, in case with handles.
 

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joe/OH said:
Tom357, I believe the quote is from Clint Smith.

Here is the full quote:

"The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down". -Clint Smith

Also a few cool tests that drive this point home:

http://theboxotruth.com/bot16.htm
Thank you for the full quote. I think it drives the point home, too. I'll take a loaded pistol in my holster over a secured, empty, disassembled rifle in my truck. I maintain that using my pistol to fight my way back to my secured, empty, disassembled rifle, is not a very viable option. If it were loaded and ready to go, that would be a different story. If all I had to do was slap the magazine home and cycle the bolt, that would be a different story.
 

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Robert is I assume OK to have loaded in trunk in ID - and FAL is darned good choice.
We're good to go here with any permit. The requirement to keep unloaded or disassembled does not apply with permit.
 

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Mind if I try to flesh it out...

You are working late in an industrial strip mall in a relatively remote cornerof the city. While taking some stuff out to the dumpster out back, you notice some sort of commotion between a pair of parked cars about 30 meters away. You decide to carefully investigate, and happen upon a rape being perpetrated upon a female by three males. Just about the time you recognize the situation, one of them notices you, when you are about 15 meters away. He yells something in a foreign language, and then two of them charge you, they each appear to have bladed weapons. Since your hand was already on your weapon, and you were still 40 feet away, you draw as you shout a warning. They continue, and you quickly put two rounds into each perps chest. You notice in the streetlight that they have MS 13 tattoos.
Then things go sideways.
Shouts towards the buildings beyond them notify you that there were more in the alleyway further down which you didn't notice.
Situation: no less than 8 individuals, some with guns, some with machetes are about 30 meters away, and starting to run and raise weapons. There is one perp very close to you (10 meters distance) on the ground. You realize will need to stop at your works back entrance to unlock the door, which will take a good 7 seconds to dig the keys ourt of your jeans, find the right one on the ring of 30 keys, get it into the lock, unlock, and get inside, which is just too damned long. Your car/truck parked on the other side of the strip (75 meters long total) is about 30 meters from the front door of the establishment, pointed towards it. Inside is an SKS in a gun rack with a few stripper clips in the glove compartment, but nothing in the weapon.
It's 30 meters to the dumpster, and 15 more to the corner of the strip mall. the strip mall is 20 meters wide, and a featureless wall on the end.

No; you are not working at a gun store; you are working at an engraving shop, or some other place which would not have weapons readily available.

Okay; you just dropped two MS13 gangsters, and their 8 friends are pissed, armed, and drawing down.
 

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SKS with strippers versus what I already have in my pocket: I'll probably go for what I already have. I'm not particularly mobile due to an old injury.

I have 29 rounds minimum of .357 Sig JHP and 5 of .44 special. I hope it doesn't come down to that, but I'm thinking of another consideration that's even more evil: I don't want them to get my license plate and call friends on their cell phone while I fight off the never-ending horde and have them attacking me and mine before I even get a chance to do anything about it or tell them to bug out.

Ironically, I *do* work at a gun store, but figure anywhere you have to unlock with that much security is going to have an alarm. I'll expend a shell to shatter the window and sound the alarm, hoping for backup a little faster and more direct than the Beiruit I just unleashed in downtown Idaho.

I'm in a world of hurt. 8, some with guns, means I'm going to get hit and hurt. I'm good, but there are few that good and it's pure dumb luck at 8-1.

My best chance for reloads are the guns of the idiots I drop.
 

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The thought of fighting back to your rifle is all fine and dandy but not always true in the real world I cant take one everywhere with me and what if im in say for some dumb reason the mall or even the mall parking lot...

Even if i had a Rifle say a Hk G3 in the car it would be impractile to try to get to it ..

Even i think for cops its not alwyas practile to fight your way back to the Shotgun ..


Im more of the mindset make what ya got work Or as we used to say when i did some racin Run what ya Brung
 

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Doc, excellent and realistic expansion. Assuming I had a Glock and the 3-4 mags I had when I was in Houston, I would have to say "attack". Maybe crazy, but you're in a can of whoop-ass you really can't handle in any logical way. The machete & pipe/bat weilders would worry me more than the shooters. The SKS would be a moot point- they will run you down, en-masse, before you would likely even touch it. Time to use up a whole bunch of the good luck you hopefully have, and dip your "hangers" in cold-cast brass! The only difference in approach, to me would be: 1) If I had a cell phone, I'd call 911, say, "Armed rape in progress at_____", and pitch the phone in the dumpster(the 911 tracking will home in on it, and if you successfully evac, the BG's won't be likely to see your phone-with your stored#'s-lying someplace convenient). 2) Assuming this is obviously a gang-rape, there is no warning- the first shot would be as careful and aimed as I could make it; a good, violently explosive head-shot, if I really felt I could, spray a couple after them as they ran. "Shock and awe" could buy you the time to grab the victim and haul ass to the car.

Regarding the plate: I never use the lower plate bolts- you can fold it over if you have to. Not a big concern where I am now, but.....

I remember about 13 years ago, a man was being beaten by two assailants with pipes, in an apparent bump-n-jack (in Houston), off the 610 loop. An unidentified male in a pick-up pulled up behind the two involved vehicles. He fired a warning shot from a shotgun into a lawn, backing down the assailants, helped the victim into his truck, and dropped him off at the door of Humana Hosp. What the rescuer did was completely illegal, at the time(I don't know how Houston views loaded long-guns now, I would assume it hasn't changed), and the victim alternately described him as black, hispanic, and white- same general thing happened with "witnesses" in the neighborhood. :cool:
 

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We (in NW Fla.) just got finished with our 2nd hurricane in 10 months. Part of my wife and I's "retreat to safe room" plan, it to have already stored in the room a AK and 6,30 shot pre loaded mags. Also my Benelli M1 Super 90,with 7 shot mag tube and 50 rds. of #4 buck. These are put into the room just before the wind picks up. All my other "around the house" weapons are put into the safes. After reading the reports ref. the aftermath of hurricane Andrew in south Fla., it was utter chaos. There were looters,either alone,or in 2's and 3's,sometimes more,going systemattically through the neighborhoods taking what the people could not defend. The LEO's were of little or NO help. One report said that the homeowner was told by a LEO just after the wind had died down "this will be the only time that we can get around to your neighborhood so you will have to protect yourselves until the National Guard can get here". If I am told this I want to have the proper weapons,ammo,lights,etc. to do just that. My wife and I will protect what is ours. Even if it has blown down the block. This is the time for the most intimadateing,nasty,killer looking,black,highest cap mag that you can come up with. And I can come up with alot. These will be the times for rifles and shotguns.-----
 
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