[cz75luver]

As the title explains, has anyone else read "Terminal Ballistics as Viewed in a Morgue". It's a very good/informative article and gives an interesting perspective on ballistic performance. Take a look and see what you think:

http://www.mouseguns.com/deadmeat.htm

 

[Rustynuts]

I had read this a long time ago. Still unsure if it's authentic or not. Reads a little too Gecko45'ish to me.

 

[10thmtn]

Yea...one of those things that goes around and around online. Not sure if it's authentic or not.

Even if it is, not sure you can draw conclusions from it. Maybe the .45 were JHPs fired by trained LEOs, while the 9mm's were FMJ fired gansta style by gangbangers?

If someone gets hit by one .45 and dies 30 minutes later, is that better than someone who dies within seconds after getting hit by five 9mm rounds?

I've read testimony from trauma surgeons who state you cannot tell the caliber of the round just by looking at the wound path.

Whatever - I'm tired of the caliber wars. Pick the best balance of ammo capacity, mild recoil, and good penetration. Then practice, and put the bullets where they count.

 

[Bark'n]

Yea...one of those things that goes around and around online. Not sure if it's authentic or not.

Even if it is, not sure you can draw conclusions from it. Maybe the .45 were JHPs fired by trained LEOs, while the 9mm's were FMJ fired gansta style by gangbangers?

If someone gets hit by one .45 and dies 30 minutes later, is that better than someone who dies within seconds after getting hit by five 9mm rounds?

I've read testimony from trauma surgeons who state you cannot tell the caliber of the round just by looking at the wound path.

Whatever - I'm tired of the caliber wars. Pick the best balance of ammo capacity, mild recoil, and good penetration. Then practice, and put the bullets where they count.

These days and at this stage in life, I am in full agreement of your last statement!

:hand10:

 

[BearCat]

I agree with 10thmtn. The caliber wars are getting old.

The best caliber is the one that allows you to place your rounds on target.

 

[mojust]

Nothing new here. As for multiple hits, the SAS trains with Sig 226s for exactly that purpose. They do double taps with great skill. All of us are not that good, of course, but I can put 4 9 millimeter rounds center mass in less than a second with a short reset trigger. That would seem to me to be the equivalent of a single 45, if not more. My 226 carries 20 rounds in a MecGar mag, and my 228, 16, so multiple hits are the name of the game. I also shoot .40 and .45 and am a believer in those also. I'm thinking of getting a Smith 686 7 shot to explore the wonders of .357. And then there's my Mossberg...

 

[MitchellCT]

It seemed like an advertisement for calibers that begin with "4", and a complete hit piece on 9mm & .380ACP.

Shoot the target in the head.
He will fall down, then be dead.

 

[ELCruisr]

OK, I was part of the whole thing when it originally happened. He was a forensic pathologist. That means he read the reports and had all the pictures. He did not personally do the autopsies. He also did a number of mass casualty jobs. He was legit. I knew a few gents who knew the guy well and shot with him routinely.

He stated over and over that these were personal opinions based on his career observations. He got fed up enough with all the usual internet "expert" commentary from people with little or no real knowledge that he's not bothering with forums any more for several years now. Can't say as I blame him.

Oh, hope you can pull off that head shot against a moving bobbing target while you are moving fast yourself 'cause you'd darn well better be moving if you don't want to get shot yourself!

 

[jwhite75]

I worked as a Investigator for the Medical Examiner in our state....I dont need to read it. I saw it.

 

[andr0id]

Why are people found with only a single .45 in them?

If I have to shoot with a .45, the BG is still going to get 3 for starters, just like with a 9mm.

 

[10thmtn]

I worked as a Investigator for the Medical Examiner in our state....I dont need to read it. I saw it.

Interesting! Care to elaborate?

 

[10thmtn]

Why are people found with only a single .45 in them?

If I have to shoot with a .45, the BG is still going to get 3 for starters, just like with a 9mm.

Proponents of the larger calibers will say that the answer to your question is because "it only took one .45 and they dropped dead right there!":tongue:

I agree with your tactic - whatever the caliber, I will fire a few to the high chest and then one or more to the head until they fall down. Yes, the head is a harder target to hit, which is why a few to the chest first should slow them down.:wink:

 

[Bricktop]

Yeah its all good IF you get a chance to put 2 in the chest and one in the head, but what if you only get one round fired off? You never know what will happen in a gunfight, misses, misplaced bullets and maybe being shot yourself. I think the caliber is important to a degree.

 

[10thmtn]

Yeah its all good IF you get a chance to put 2 in the chest and one in the head, but what if you only get one round fired off? You never know what will happen in a gunfight, misses, misplaced bullets and maybe being shot yourself. I think the caliber is important to a degree.

I agree. Caliber is important insofar as it gets you penetration to the vitals. A larger wound is certainly going to produce more damage, but I'm not sure it will matter much in terms of how long it takes to stop the threat. Consider that a motivated person can still function for 10-30 seconds after getting shot in the heart - plenty of time to kill you.

Larger calibers produce slightly larger wounds, but at the expense of ammo capacity (important if you miss with some shots, or multiple attackers, etc), recoil (important for follow-up shots), cost of ammo (important for practice and training), etc.

So, you pick the compromise that works best for you. A .45 may produce more damage shot-for-shot, but a smaller caliber will give you an edge in ammo capacity, speed of follow-up shots, and affordability in training.

 

[Tubby45]

Deadmeat is who he says he is. Many people who know him personally and shoot IDPA with him verify his statements and experiences.

The officers I've spoken with who have worked homicide and witnessed countless autopsies (the callused guys who can eat a burrito while the corpse is disemboweled) have said the same thing.

 

[llongshot]

I have to say it one more time. If its short range you can't go wrong with the 1911. The great big diameter slow moving bullet does what it was designed for in WWI in the trenches. The maximum amount of damage in the minimum amount of time. It's not been the success it has for over a hundred years without some merit. If you can't handle the grip size or the recoil or noise use what works for you. Someone tell me that, given the same projectile, you honestly think three 9MM bullets at the same speed with the same point of impact as three .45 caliber bullets will do the same amount of damage given their difference in weight and diameter. Another reason I can't stop bragging on the 10MM. It has the same diameter as the .40 and 15 round capability and is only five hundredths of an inch less in diameter than the .45.

 

[Japle]

One of the benefits of working in a morgue is that I get to see what works and what doesn't.

Lost me right there. He sees what kills, not what stops.

I've heard that 80%+ of people who get shot survive the experience. How many of them were stopped? What guns and ammo were used? How many kept fighting? How many were caught in drive-bys and weren't fighting in the first place?

As CCWers or cops, we're not interested in whether our attacker ends up in the morgue or on trial. We want him to stop attacking us! That's what's important.

 

[1911PKR]

I work in a bad part of the city and carry .45ACP. My wife works in the surgery dept. in the same part of town. After the gunshot victim is stabilized, they go to surgery. We are keepin' a semi-accurate account of what peeps are shot w/ when they enter the surgery dept. So far...NO .45 gunshot victims have come through. They skip that step...and go straight to the morgue!

 

[LibertyFreak]

Saw this in another thread and I, too, wondered about the veracity of this guy. Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Rotorflyr]

<---- usually carries a .45

So far...NO .45 gunshot victims have come through. They skip that step...and go straight to the morgue!

:comeandgetsome: Yep NO one who's been shot with a .45 has ever survived!