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Never underestimate what the government will mandate.
I never in my life would have thought that they would mandate the shuttering of thriving business, outlawing going to the beach, or fishing. Visiting my family and friends.
Not to mention shuttering churches....the very linchpin of why this nation was birthed.

At risk of sounding just a tiny bit like Dr. King, we had better just go ahead and start practicing civil disobedience. I am.
 
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Never underestimate what the government will mandate.
I never in my life would have thought that they would mandate the shuttering of thriving business, outlawing going to the beach, or fishing. Visiting my family and friends.
Well, you do have a point there....
 

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Is it hypothetical to require people quarantine themselves? Wear masks when they are out in public? Close their businesses for months at a time? Arrest people for walking on a beach? Arrest shop owners for giving haircuts? Make it illegal to sell vegetables at a garden center?

Never underestimate the government's will to violate our rights...it's happening as we speak. All they have to do is wrap it in, "it's for your own health and safety".
The British PM went on camera noting how easy it is to take away people's rights and much harder to restore them. Obviously, our politicians have made the same observation.
 

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The British PM went on camera noting how easy it is to take away people's rights and much harder to restore them. Obviously, our politicians have made the same observation.
No such thing as the right to spread disease...
 

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No such thing as the right to spread disease...
That may be true, but we all would do well to note that real leaders persuade men to follow with sound reason.

Tyrants know nothing about leading, or reason. They drive men at the point of a gun - usually someone else's gun.

stalindead-56a48c3e3df78cf77282eed2.jpg

I chose that photo purposefully to remind us also of the ultimate fate of all those who demand total obedience from men.
 

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No such thing as the right to spread disease...
People do have the right to go to work, church, school and conduct their lives. We can control the spread of the virus without destroying our way of life.

I think we see that the curve has been flattened and it's time to open up the country.

It's become political, not medical. Take a look at the difference in the Blue States and Red States. It's day and night in most cases.
 

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“That’s what a democracy is about,” Dershowitz argued. “If the majority of the people agree and support that, for public health measures, you have to be vaccinated, you have to be vaccinated.”

We are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic that upholds individual rights, not the collective the left so dreams of.

I will refuse vaccination if I please and they better not push the issue.
Specifically we are a Constitutional Republic. The second to the last thing any American should want to be is a democracy, the first being a dictatorship.
 
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Some of these Democrat Governors - especially NJ - remind me a little of "Robert Strange McNamara (June 9, 1916 — July 6, 2009) was an American business executive and the eighth United States Secretary of Defense, serving from 1961 to 1968 under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson. He played a major role in escalating the United States' involvement in the Vietnam War."

The glaring problem we are now facing is not only the virus - which they are continually learning new things about - but all the wrong assumptions and thinking about this virus that the "experts", like McNamara, are advancing which is influencing the leaders, who are accepting all of this as gospel. Then, they issue all these rules and regulations under the penalty of law, using the police to enforce them, which later turn out to not necessarily have been right. In the meantime, Vietnam raged, and in this case, our economy and peoples lives risk ruination, because we the people elected someone from a political machine and not necessarily from the people. Now we wake up a little and wonder how we got here.

There have been a few bright leaders who allowed the herd to build resistance to the virus and at the same time tried to protect the weak and vulnerable. Sweden and South Dakota come to mind. I believe it takes enlightened, experienced leaders to govern and decide upon a coarse of action based on all available information and science. Instead, too many leaders have learned to form committees and conduct endless studies while not being able to rely upon wisdom which they unfortunately don't posses.
 

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No such thing as the right to spread disease...
First prove that I have a disease and then that I am spreading it. We are not quite a police state - yet.
 

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A very good point: how can the state "prove" that some one has spread the disease?
 

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Here's a question - if the vaccine is available in the fall (I doubt it, but if it is, great), will you get it?

I will. Prolly a flu shot, too. I'm getting up there....
 

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Here's a question - if the vaccine is available in the fall (I doubt it, but if it is, great), will you get it?
If I believe a vaccine to be safe and effective - you bet I would get it. But I truly believe that it should be MY decision to make.
 

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I have mixed feelings regarding the comments about vaccines. Before my wife quit her job at the church preschool, there was a lot of discussion with the church over requiring students to be vaccinated. Many of the students that attended did so because other schools required vaccination. Now, because of the growing anti-vaccination movement, there has been an increase in measles, mumps, scarlet fever, TB and other diseases that were thought to be long gone. See: https://www.mdlinx.com/article/10-dreaded-diseases-back-from-the-brink/lfc-3380

When my wife and I were children, vaccinations for certain diseases were mandatory and we don't recall seeing such strident opposition to public health measures. Where does one draw the line? Schools can deny students an education if they are not current on their vaccinations. So, how do you feel about denying entry to businesses, and private property, and government buildings if you choose not to get vaccinated? Businesses and property owners have rights. So, where is the line between individual rights and protecting public health? We've had healthy debate over the draconian overreach that politicians have made over COVID-19. I have issues with the definition of "essential" and "non-essential" workers and businesses. I take real issue with mandatory home confinements, largely because my business has suffered a quite a bit. I have a real problem with closing houses of worship, especially when people are really having a hard time with this pandemic.

However, when the discussion turns to vaccinations against diseases, I get mixed feelings. To me, it is one thing for me to forgo medical treatment for an illness I have such as cancer. Only I am at risk. It is another issue when I choose to forgo vaccination for a communicable disease that can infect everyone else. Do I have the right to forgo a vaccination even if my choice places others at risk of disease? What about the rights of the people that are placed at risk?

As for Dershowitz, he is a democrat that actually believes in the US Constitution. I can get behind him in many areas when he opines on things that Democrats try to do that are unconstitutional. Unlike many Democrats, he is actually a pretty rational guy the vast majority of the time. I give him props for standing up for his beliefs because i recall an interview where he stated that he lost a lot of friends for defending Trump in op-eds before the impeachment and during the impeachment.
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Glad to see that you finally drew a line in the sand.
Good for you!
I agree with your stance here.
However my stance still believes in a 50/50 rule of Quarantine of those who have the Virus. Years ago when Polio was raking America they shut down our school for over a Month..Back in the early 50`s and if you had any contact with a victim Health Care people put a sign at your door "Quarantined". For two weeks you had to stay IN!. Then came the Sabin vaccine and later followed by the Salk sugar cube and the virus was defeated and things got back to normal. But,I had two classmates who lived in an Iron Lung for Six Months and had to wear steel Braces to walk for years.

This Virus today is Not going away anytime soon and will continue to spread and kill as it was designed to do,anybody who believes it`s a Natural Occurance is Not paying attention to the Pathology of the Genome witch has been determined to be artificial. Anyway...The States OR the Feds do have the right under a "Public Health Emergency" to Order You to be Innoculated OR Quarantined by Force or Severe Financial Penalties that will Bankrupt you!. What a Hell of a Mess!!!!.
 
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