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I thought the goal of a vaccine was to prevent the disease in the first place, not as a treatment after being infected.
The statement you are quoting was my response to what I consider over-reach by the authorities - not the efficacy of a vaccine.
 

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He was on Tucker Carlson making that argument too. He kept saying a "deadly disease", is there any other kind? My thought was what level of morbidity breaches the "constitutional rights" for the "public good"? 1% seems kind of low, 40% might be too high. But Covid is sub 1%.
Since someone will surely die from the vaccine, will they force everyone to get a vaccine for the vaccine because it "might kill you"?
 

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Exactly my point! Don't mess with me because you think something might be the case.
No one knows that the drunk driver is going to hurt someone, but they still arrest him.
 

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No one knows that the drunk driver is going to hurt someone, but they still arrest him.
LOL! That is because they can first prove that he is drunk.
 

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Discussion Starter #87
Here's a question - if the vaccine is available in the fall (I doubt it, but if it is, great), will you get it?

I will. Prolly a flu shot, too. I'm getting up there....

Yeah,I`ll probably get it too BUT after a six month period scrutinizing of the side effects. I also get a senior flu shot every year and haven`t had the flu since 1968. I`m a lot more skeptical of vaccines after reading how Bill Gates decimated the children of India for Money!. He needs to be held accountable for that!.
 

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He was on Tucker Carlson making that argument too. He kept saying a "deadly disease", is there any other kind?
Yes.
 

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Yeah,I`ll probably get it too BUT after a six month period scrutinizing of the side effects. I also get a senior flu shot every year and haven`t had the flu since 1968. I`m a lot more skeptical of vaccines after reading how Bill Gates decimated the children of India for Money!. He needs to be held accountable for that!.
Not familiar with that - can you point me toward something to read? Thanks.

Never mind. Google was my friend. Read up on it there. Thanks anyway.
 

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I’m a NO, and you go first.

Not going to happen this year for our home. CWO won’t get any of them, I’ll get the reg flu shot and pneumonia but that’s it. Like some say, I also get sick every time I get the flu shot so do feel stupid getting it.

Too much has happened in the past decade to put mistrust in our government in my heart. It’s been like drunks have been running this country for the past 20 years, honestly Trump has been the only one I put any faith in (this includes both Dems & GOP). I vote GOP due to agreeing mostly with some of their values, but I don’t trust any of them any further than I could toss Sheila Jackson!

[that’s not a pretty picture, like tossing midgets, only this time giant midgets - oxy’moron 😝]
 

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I should've been more detailed. "deadly disease" that causes deaths, is what he was alluding to. So my thought was is there any disease that causes death that is not deadly?
And at what level of deaths is a trigger to suspend Constitutional Rights or even Morality?

Though to go a step further is there really any disease that hasn't caused a death at some point? Either by the disease itself, reaction to vaccine/disease/treatments. People die from adverse reactions to Penicillin and many other drugs used to treat illness. Of course I am taking it to extremes, but Osgood-Schlatter Disease can cause water/fluid on the knee which may be drained by needle, an infection can result, treatment with penicillin causes a reaction and the patient dies.

Sorry I think I'm rambling?
 

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I should've been more detailed. "deadly disease" that causes deaths, is what he was alluding to. So my thought was is there any disease that causes death that is not deadly?
And at what level of deaths is a trigger to suspend Constitutional Rights or even Morality?

Though to go a step further is there really any disease that hasn't caused a death at some point? Either by the disease itself, reaction to vaccine/disease/treatments. People die from adverse reactions to Penicillin and many other drugs used to treat illness. Of course I am taking it to extremes, but Osgood-Schlatter Disease can cause water/fluid on the knee which may be drained by needle, an infection can result, treatment with penicillin causes a reaction and the patient dies.

Sorry I think I'm rambling?
You forgot we could put an eye out. :smile:
 

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No such thing as the right to spread disease...
So we are all guilty of "spreading disease" until we can be proven innocent?

How does one prove they are innocent?

They cannot.

So, we continue to punish everyone by these draconian measures that are not based in science nor in any way how we have dealt with any other virus in history?

Sure, lets stay locked in our homes for 200 years and only going out with all sorts of restrictions. Why 200 years? That is how long we have been dealing with the Common Cold, which is another Coronavirus. When the common cold first appeared, it killed many people. Now, the common cold only kills the weakest that have other medical issues.

It is time to get back on with our lives.
 

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I should've been more detailed. "deadly disease" that causes deaths, is what he was alluding to. So my thought was is there any disease that causes death that is not deadly?
And at what level of deaths is a trigger to suspend Constitutional Rights or even Morality?
Typhoid Mary. But that was locking away a known carrier, not everyone-infected or not.
 

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So we are all guilty of "spreading disease" until we can be proven innocent?

How does one prove they are innocent?

They cannot.

So, we continue to punish everyone by these draconian measures that are not based in science nor in any way how we have dealt with any other virus in history?

Sure, lets stay locked in our homes for 200 years and only going out with all sorts of restrictions. Why 200 years? That is how long we have been dealing with the Common Cold, which is another Coronavirus. When the common cold first appeared, it killed many people. Now, the common cold only kills the weakest that have other medical issues.

It is time to get back on with our lives.
I think it's good to compare it to drunk driving. Many people drive drunk without hurting anyone, but they create a substantial risk to others by their reckless behavior. So, the law sets reasonable limits on the behavior to limit the risk. You can drink, and even drink and drive, as long as your BAC is below a certain number. Go above that and you're in trouble, regardless of whether you've actually hurt anyone, because of the risk you've created.

During a pandemic, being near other people creates a substantial risk to others. So, the law sets limits on the behavior - requiring masks, capacity restrictions, etc. Just like with drinking and driving, this means restricting how citizens use their person and property.
 

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During a pandemic, being near other people creates a substantial risk to others. So, the law sets limits on the behavior - requiring masks, capacity restrictions, etc. Just like with drinking and driving, this means restricting how citizens use their person and property.
It's essentially over with, just the wreck of the country left behind. NYC had 87 deaths the other day due to COVID, at least that's what they're calling the cause of death.

The curve has flattened, the virus has been contained and now it's time to get the country open. People can still protect themselves by whatever means they think necessary and we can all get back to work.

The idea that schools shouldn't open in the fall or take absurd, draconian measures, is just ridiculous. Restricting people from beaches or going in the water is beyond absurd.

Get the country up and running again, enough of the wholesale destruction of businesses and lives.
 

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I think it's good to compare it to drunk driving. Many people drive drunk without hurting anyone, but they create a substantial risk to others by their reckless behavior. So, the law sets reasonable limits on the behavior to limit the risk. You can drink, and even drink and drive, as long as your BAC is below a certain number. Go above that and you're in trouble, regardless of whether you've actually hurt anyone, because of the risk you've created.

During a pandemic, being near other people creates a substantial risk to others. So, the law sets limits on the behavior - requiring masks, capacity restrictions, etc. Just like with drinking and driving, this means restricting how citizens use their person and property.
Your analogy is flawed.

This issue is not going out and being in public, it is the requirement that one wear an external piece of cloth, ie a mask in order to do so.

Throw in that masks, especially the cloth ones being used by many, are USELESS against a virus and it makes no sense.

Unless of course you are merely trying to show how powerful you are.
 

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Typhoid Mary. But that was locking away a known carrier, not everyone-infected or not.
Who was asymptomatic, and I think Typhoid Fever had a higher untreated death rate.

From Wikpedia: Typhoid Mary:
Mary Mallon (September 23, 1869 — November 11, 1938), also known as Typhoid Mary, was an Irish-born cook believed to have infected 53 people, three of whom died, with typhoid fever, and the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the disease.[1] Because she persisted in working as a cook, by which she exposed others to the disease, she was twice forcibly quarantined by authorities, and died after a total of nearly three decades in isolation.[2][3] Presumably, she was born with typhoid, because her mother was infected during pregnancy.

In her case 3 deaths in 53 known infections = 5.7% and she was ultimately locked up for life? But in her case it seems she never shed the disease.

Also from Wikipedia:
In 2015, 12.5 million new cases worldwide were reported.[8] The disease is most common in India.[3] Children are most commonly affected.[3][4] Rates of disease decreased in the developed world in the 1940s as a result of improved sanitation and use of antibiotics to treat the disease.[4] Each year in the United States, about 400 cases are reported and the disease occurs in an estimated 6,000 people.[6][12] In 2015, it resulted in about 149,000 deaths worldwide – down from 181,000 in 1990 (about 0.3% of the global total).[9][13] The risk of death may be as high as 20% without treatment.[4] With treatment, it is between 1 and 4%.[3][4] Typhus is a different disease.[14] However, the name typhoid means "resembling typhus" due to the similarity in symptoms.[15].

So the morbidity of Covid is close, maybe even less, than treated Typhoid Fever. And yet there hasn't been a lock down with it?
 

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I’m a NO, and you go first.

Not going to happen this year for our home. CWO won’t get any of them, I’ll get the reg flu shot and pneumonia but that’s it. Like some say, I also get sick every time I get the flu shot so do feel stupid getting it.

Too much has happened in the past decade to put mistrust in our government in my heart. It’s been like drunks have been running this country for the past 20 years, honestly Trump has been the only one I put any faith in (this includes both Dems & GOP). I vote GOP due to agreeing mostly with some of their values, but I don’t trust any of them any further than I could toss Sheila Jackson!

[that’s not a pretty picture, like tossing midgets, only this time giant midgets - oxy’moron 😝]
Except that I don't get the flu shot and only once the pneumonia shot, and was sick for 3 months, we are of the same mind.

Especially on the Politicians and Trump. Yet before he decided to run for President I never much cared for him, thought he was a pompous, narcissistic mega rich guy. I did credit him with an abundance of business smarts and people skills (you know the ability to manipulate people). I just didn't realize his true love for this country. And THAT is what I voted on. And the knowledge that being a Billionaire he would not be forced to agree with the policies of his donors.

That issue is the Achilles Heel of Politicians. No matter what their true beliefs are when politics is your job, you will do what is needed to get paid.
It also is a bonus that he doesn't give a hoot about the media!
 
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