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Here's a question - if the vaccine is available in the fall (I doubt it, but if it is, great), will you get it?

I will. Prolly a flu shot, too. I'm getting up there....
Absolutely not. Nor will I get my annual flu shot in the future. The medical "experts" and the health care community have shown beyond any doubt that they cannot be trusted. They are all in it for the money, and science has become no more than a computer game call modeling. Which the forecasters now use to predict the weather. Every single thing the experts told us during this so called crises has proven to be wrong. Almost every death in the USA has been attributed to the Covid numbers, almost every hospital admittance has also been added to the Covid numbers. The media, by yelling fire in a crowded theater, has caused mass panic and hysteria among the people. And the politicians have taken full advantage of the situation to test our mettle and our love for liberty and we have failed miserably. We have been lied to and have had our rights trampled upon by the same money grubbing "officials" who, along with their corporate sponsors, will soon present us with a vaccine which they will tell us is absolutely safe, effective, and most likely mandatory. I'm a human pincushion when it comes to "shots" but not any more. I will refuse. Just my 2 cents.
 

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Let's examine the title: "You Have ‘No Right’ To Refuse Mask, Open Your Business; State Has ‘Right’ To ‘Plunge A Needle Into Your Arm’ And Forcibly Vaccinate"

Masks: Yes, the state does have the Constitutional authority, both U.S. Constitution and at least for Colorado (and I imagine about 45 others), the State Constitutional authority to required those who want to exercise their freedoms in public to do so while maintaining a reasonable safe distance of 6' and also while wearing a mask.

One point of law here involves both public safety and what's considered "reasonable." Given the nature of the disease -- untreated it remains 40 to 60 times more deadly than the flu while often being passed presymptomatically asymptomatically -- it's reasonable to require people to wear a $3 mask, either one that's hand-sewn using materials proven good for attenuating for 0.3 micron particles, one hand-made like these being demonstration by the U.S. Surgeon General:


...or one that's bought at a store.

Sorry about the video. Apparently, vBulletin assumes one always wants to embed a video. I did not.

Another point of law is that quarantines have indeed been challenged and defeated in the courts since the days of Typhoid Mary. If competent medical authority determines you have a contagious disease, they can indeed impose a quarantine for the duration of your infectious phase.

Stay-at-Home and Business Closed Orders: No. Except for those specific employees under quarantine, the state cannot lawfully deny any business their right to continue operating, making money, accumulating possessions and pursuing happiness, but only if the business and its employees are taking reasonable steps to prevent the spread of the contagion i.e. wearing masks, protective eyewear, hand sanitation, and employing routine decontamination procedures.

Colorado State Constitution, Article III Bill of Rights, Section 3. Inalienable rights. All persons have certain natural, essential and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; of acquiring, possessing and protecting property; and of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

Source: Entire article added, effective August 1, 1876, see L. 1877, p. 29.

Cross references: For the guarantee of judicial process for protection of inalienable rights, see § 25 of this article.

Forced Vaccinations: No (in my mind), but apparently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled otherwise in Jacobson v Massachusetts (1905). I would argue forced invasion and permanent modification of another person's immune system is a direct violation of their inalienable right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and that 1905, being 115 years ago, long before the science of man-induced autoimmune disorders was even known, is no longer relevant to the situation.

I'm absolutely not an sort of anti-vaxxer. However, in order to pull the rug out from beneath all their arguments concerning public health and safety, in lieu of a vaccination I would gladly submit to a reasonable quarantine (14 days for COVID-19) and/or inhalation/exhalation mask filtration of P100 (99.97%) within 12 feet of others and proper sanitation procedures while out and about until the cases drop to such a level that state employees who routinely deal with the public like teachers, law enforcement, bus drivers, etc. are no longer required to wear masks.

In fact, that's precisely what I'm doing, as I absolutely do not want to be infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

I'll tackle the article's contents and a comment or two, later.

Again, sorry about the video. I tried to turn it into a link, but vBulletin forced it into an embedded video.
 

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On Dershowitz

Dershowitz: " “That’s what a democracy is about,” Dershowitz argued. “If the majority of the people agree and support that, for public health measures, you have to be vaccinated, you have to be vaccinated.” "

That may indeed be what a democracy is all about, there, Dershowitz, but it's not what the United States of America is about, and for one glorious reason:

Constitution for the United States of America: Article. IV. Section. 4. The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government.

Colorado State Constitution (and I'll bet yours, as well): ENABLING ACT of March 3, 1875: § 4. Constitutional convention - requirements of constitution. ...the constitution shall be republican in form..."

Put simply, in deference to you, Dershowitz, the United States of America is NOT a "democracy."

Quite literally, and in every sense of the words, we are a Constitutional Republic.

Dershowitz: "They should give you an alternative. The alternative is to live in your home, don’t get vaccinated, but never ever leave your home or live in a bubble."

Horse Hockey, Dershowitz! You should know better. You're either ignorant or you're lying. Your statement is a False Dichotomy. Specifically, it's an argument that claims there are only two possibilities which need to be considered when in fact there are more. Example: "Either we cut spending on education or we rack up a huge budget deficit. We don't want a deficit, so we have to cut spending on education." Option 3 might be, "revamp education to be a lot less costly with less overhead." False Dichotomies preclude the existence of more than the two stated options.

The VIABLE third option is simple: Mask up. No "bubble" required.
 

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Another point of law is that quarantines have indeed been challenged and defeated in the courts since the days of Typhoid Mary. If competent medical authority determines you have a contagious disease, they can indeed impose a quarantine for the duration of your infectious phase.
In this case the government quarantined people who were not sick and were not infected. Quite the opposite of what you cited.

As to "untreated it remains 40 to 60 times more deadly than the flu." That number is highly suspect. I've not heard anything even close to that. Andrew Cuomo, Doctor Birx, and many health care workers have admitted to fudging the number of deaths. Heart attacks, cancer, accidents, flu, pneumonia, and other causes of death have been attributed to Covid without testing to determine that was in fact, the cause of death. So the numbers are fake going in. We've been told the death rate is .01 to .004. Much lower than the annual flu.

And doctor Fauci said on national TV that masks are useless and not needed based on science. He has since changed his mind based on politics.
 

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...
One point of law here involves both public safety and what's considered "reasonable." Given the nature of the disease -- untreated it remains 40 to 60 times more deadly than the flu while often being passed presymptomatically asymptomatically -- it's reasonable to require people to wear a $3 mask, either one that's hand-sewn using materials proven good for attenuating for 0.3 micron particles, one hand-made like these being demonstration by the U.S. Surgeon General:
...
Just to comment on the death rate. Latest estimate from the CDC is that the actual death rate is 0.26%, or about 2x - 2.5x a "regular" flu. See scenario #5, row 5, death rate for symptomatic cases: 0.004. Next row: Asymptomatic cases: 35%. Thus, an overall death rate of 0.026%.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
 

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Can anyone tell me exactly where in the Constitution it says the Government has to right to force a vaccination on anyone or everyone. I have not had a flu shot in 25 years, my family Dr. tells me every year to get a flu shot and now a pneumonia shot. I say no last time I had a flu shot my wife had to call an ambulance. I have practiced social distancing of a sort for years even as a cop. I don't shake hands, I keep a safe distance from people who appear sick and I always gloved up before touching a suspect. Worked for me.
 

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Let's examine the title: "You Have ‘No Right’ To Refuse Mask, Open Your Business; State Has ‘Right’ To ‘Plunge A Needle Into Your Arm’ And Forcibly Vaccinate"

Masks: Yes, the state does have the Constitutional authority, both U.S. Constitution and at least for Colorado (and I imagine about 45 others), the State Constitutional authority to required those who want to exercise their freedoms in public to do so while maintaining a reasonable safe distance of 6' and also while wearing a mask.

One point of law here involves both public safety and what's considered "reasonable." Given the nature of the disease -- untreated it remains 40 to 60 times more deadly than the flu while often being passed presymptomatically asymptomatically -- it's reasonable to require people to wear a $3 mask, either one that's hand-sewn using materials proven good for attenuating for 0.3 micron particles, one hand-made like these being demonstration by the U.S. Surgeon General:


...or one that's bought at a store.

Sorry about the video. Apparently, vBulletin assumes one always wants to embed a video. I did not.

Another point of law is that quarantines have indeed been challenged and defeated in the courts since the days of Typhoid Mary. If competent medical authority determines you have a contagious disease, they can indeed impose a quarantine for the duration of your infectious phase.

Stay-at-Home and Business Closed Orders: No. Except for those specific employees under quarantine, the state cannot lawfully deny any business their right to continue operating, making money, accumulating possessions and pursuing happiness, but only if the business and its employees are taking reasonable steps to prevent the spread of the contagion i.e. wearing masks, protective eyewear, hand sanitation, and employing routine decontamination procedures.

Colorado State Constitution, Article III Bill of Rights, Section 3. Inalienable rights. All persons have certain natural, essential and inalienable rights, among which may be reckoned the right of enjoying and defending their lives and liberties; of acquiring, possessing and protecting property; and of seeking and obtaining their safety and happiness.

Source: Entire article added, effective August 1, 1876, see L. 1877, p. 29.

Cross references: For the guarantee of judicial process for protection of inalienable rights, see § 25 of this article.

Forced Vaccinations: No (in my mind), but apparently, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled otherwise in Jacobson v Massachusetts (1905). I would argue forced invasion and permanent modification of another person's immune system is a direct violation of their inalienable right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and that 1905, being 115 years ago, long before the science of man-induced autoimmune disorders was even known, is no longer relevant to the situation.

I'm absolutely not an sort of anti-vaxxer. However, in order to pull the rug out from beneath all their arguments concerning public health and safety, in lieu of a vaccination I would gladly submit to a reasonable quarantine (14 days for COVID-19) and/or inhalation/exhalation mask filtration of P100 (99.97%) within 12 feet of others and proper sanitation procedures while out and about until the cases drop to such a level that state employees who routinely deal with the public like teachers, law enforcement, bus drivers, etc. are no longer required to wear masks.

In fact, that's precisely what I'm doing, as I absolutely do not want to be infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus.

I'll tackle the article's contents and a comment or two, later.

Again, sorry about the video. I tried to turn it into a link, but vBulletin forced it into an embedded video.
The Covid-19 virus is between .1 and .124 microns in size. It can sail right through a .3 micron hole in a mask.

Surgical masks are not even rated for viruses. Read the label on the box they come in.
 

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Discussion Starter #148
Can anyone tell me exactly where in the Constitution it says the Government has to right to force a vaccination on anyone or everyone. I have not had a flu shot in 25 years, my family Dr. tells me every year to get a flu shot and now a pneumonia shot. I say no last time I had a flu shot my wife had to call an ambulance. I have practiced social distancing of a sort for years even as a cop. I don't shake hands, I keep a safe distance from people who appear sick and I always gloved up before touching a suspect. Worked for me.

Can we say "States Rights" as defined by the last Civil War....Or...Do we Need another one????.
 

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The Covid-19 virus is between .1 and .124 microns in size. It can sail right through a .3 micron hole in a mask.

Surgical masks are not even rated for viruses. Read the label on the box they come in.
Unless you are in an environment that creates virus aerosols, there will be very few single viruses floating around. An average droplet from a person coughing is about 5-10 microns. There really is a lot of BS that comes out of people's mouths, even leaders unfortunately... but there are many people who really do know a lot and are trying their best here.
 

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Unless you are in an environment that creates virus aerosols, there will be very few single viruses floating around. An average droplet from a person coughing is about 5-10 microns. There really is a lot of BS that comes out of people's mouths, even leaders unfortunately... but there are many people who really do know a lot and are trying their best here.
I am not listening to any of the talking heads. I am going on the classes I took to become a certified medical laboratory technician and get my degree.

You shed single viruses all the time if you are not producing a lot of mucus but are infectious.

They are not even sure if that is the case with this virus yet because they have not had years to study it.

Again, read what the manufacturer of surgical masks state in their package inserts. They specifically tell you that this mask is not intended to prevent exposure to viruses.

So, if a surgical mask won't stop a virus, how on earth do you suppose a cloth one with much larger "holes" between the weave can?

Throw in that you can also catch the virus via your eyes and well, you do what you feel is best, wear your mask. It doesn't bother me. I just won't be wearing one.
 
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