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I have Dawson Precision sights on my Glock 17 Gen 4, Glock 30 Gen 4 and my S&W M&P 22 Compact. The front sight is red fiber optic and the rear sight is a black notch (no fiber). I really like these sights.

When I shoot at my indoor range I use a B-16 25 Yd Slow-Fire Pistol target shown in the attached photograph. The white bulls eye is 2.5 inches in diameter. When the target is positioned at 7 yards (see the attached range photograph) and I focus on the front sight on each gun and when I obtain proper sight alignment the white bull area is so small that the front sight pretty much covers the white bull area making it extremely difficult to obtain a sight picture on the white bull. When I move the target to 10 yards the front sight completely covers the bull.

How do get a proper sight picture if I the front sight covers the bull at these distances? I like to shoot at 7 and 10 yards. How to shooters get really tight groups at these distances if the front sight covers the bull? Should I be using a different target? I am focusing on the front sight - I am not focusing on the target.

Thanks!

Target.JPG Range Target.JPG
 

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Changing targets would be the easiest if you like the sights you have. Front sight focus with target and rear sights slightly blurred is what you want. I have the same issue with extreme prescision shooting 2" circles with my pistols as well as longer range as the front sight completely covers the target.
Match target sights are typically set for 6 o clock or lollipop hold so the target is visible.
 

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At those distances, I would expect your point of impact to be below your point of aim. Make your point of aim 12:00 on the white circle, and your rounds should be impacting somewhere in the white.
 

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Simple - use a "6 o'clock hold" so the white bull sits on top of your front sight post, instead of the post being centered on the white bull. This is the norm for bullseye shooting. In combat shooting we typically use a center hold (center the front sight in the middle of where you want to hit the target), but this is not precision shooting. Under stress, if you can put all your shots onto an 8" paper plate at 15 yards you're in reasonably good shape.

Shooting at 7 and 10 yards you'll notice a small difference in point of impact for the same sight picture, but it won't be significant.
 

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Changing targets would be the easiest if you like the sights you have. Front sight focus with target and rear sights slightly blurred is what you want. I have the same issue with extreme prescision shooting 2" circles with my pistols as well as longer range as the front sight completely covers the target.
Match target sights are typically set for 6 o clock or lollipop hold so the target is visible.
Rocky, you mention a 6 o'clock hold - when I do a 6 o'clock hold my POI is below the white bull. This is why I try to have my POA is at the top of the white.
 

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At those distances, I would expect your point of impact to be below your point of aim. Make your point of aim 12:00 on the white circle, and your rounds should be impacting somewhere in the white.
Mike, you are correct - when my POA is at 12:00 on the white circle my POI is in the white. My issue is when the target is at 5 or 7 yards the white bull is so small that my front sight almost covers the white circle making it difficult to establish a proper POA.
 

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Simple - use a "6 o'clock hold" so the white bull sits on top of your front sight post, instead of the post being centered on the white bull. This is the norm for bullseye shooting. In combat shooting we typically use a center hold (center the front sight in the middle of where you want to hit the target), but this is not precision shooting. Under stress, if you can put all your shots onto an 8" paper plate at 15 yards you're in reasonably good shape.

Shooting at 7 and 10 yards you'll notice a small difference in point of impact for the same sight picture, but it won't be significant.
gasmitty, thanks for your information. If I do a 6 o'clock hold my POI is below the white circle bull - if my POA is at the top of the white bull the POA is in the center of the bull if I am shooting well. My issue is when the target is at 5 or 7 yards the white bull circle is so small I have trouble establishing a proper sight picture POA.
 

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gasmitty, thanks for your information. If I do a 6 o'clock hold my POI is below the white circle bull - if my POA is at the top of the white bull the POA is in the center of the bull if I am shooting well. My issue is when the target is at 5 or 7 yards the white bull circle is so small I have trouble establishing a proper sight picture POA.
It's odd that the same sight picture gives identical results with 3 different guns. If your shots consistently hit well below your point of aim, then you need a lower front sight or a taller rear sight.

I would find a skilled shooter friend or an instructor to verify you're not jerking the trigger or doing something else to make your shots go low.
 

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I know what you are saying, but it depends on the gun and how the sights are set from the manufacturer. All of my semi autos are combat sight picture and My revolvers seem to be more of a bullseye hold.

The only way to change is to change the sights to a different set up to change the POA/POI.

I didn't want to do that so I learned to cover the target with the front sight. Yes you won't see the bullseye but I became used to it.

The true release from this is both eyes open, focus on the target and let her rip. Then learn to have the gun lower than eye level and shoot, don't need sights. But that's a whole nother topic that we won't get into now.
 

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If you are practicing for SD shooting, aim at the same place on the target each time and check the size of your groups. LIKE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BLACK CIRCLES - which just happens to be the middle of the little white circle.

Your target area for SD is not going to be that tiny little circle. You don't need full body size targets which cost a lot more - just use a realistic size target area and get consistent groups.

If you are doing competition bullseye shooting it does matter that the holes go into that tiny little 10 ring.
 

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Mike, you are correct - when my POA is at 12:00 on the white circle my POI is in the white. My issue is when the target is at 5 or 7 yards the white bull is so small that my front sight almost covers the white circle making it difficult to establish a proper POA.
The only way to move point of impact is to adjust your point of aim. If you want to be able to get bullseye hits with a six o'clock POA, you will have to adjust your rear sight elevation accordingly.
 

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The posts here are trying to do what we unfortunately try to do a lot here: Trying to come up with one answer to two different problems. Sight picture is how you aim your gun based on your sight adjustment. You can adjust (or in the case of non-adjustable sights, have a gunsmith correct) sights for any sight picture you want, 6:00, 12:00, center, or whatever. The important thing is that your picture matches the adjustment. So the real issue here is not picture, but adjustment.

Why would you choose one adjustment over another? Personal preference is a big factor. In my half century of shooting, the preferences I've leaned toward are: 6:00 hold for target shooting. Target shooters focus 100% on the front sight, so the target is blurred. A 6:00 hold is the only way a target shooter can really see the blurry X-ring he wants to hit. That allows him to do his tricks with the "U-pattern" rise and fall of the front sight caused by breathing and heartbeat. Also, the target shooter knows he will be shooting at prescribed distances. He will adjust his sights so that 6:00 works at the distance he's shooting and accounts for parallax.

But I find with combat shooting, center of mass is where it's at. You are focused on the threat. Under pressure, COM is where you're going to tend to go anyway, or even COH (Center of Head) if you are going for a headshot. You want to see the mass, not the X-ring.

The 12:00 hold is a mystery to me. I can't understand why anyone would want that unless their sights are not set up right.
 

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Simple answer that you may not like. SD shooting is not bullseye shooting. And SD guns tend to not have bullseye sights or sight pictures. SD and combat guns want you to cover the target you intend to hit. It's less precise but easier to do and easier to understand in a hurry. Front sight on target, squeeze. Bullseye sights let you see the sights and the target because they are designed to shoot precise. As a general rule, if you can cover the group with your fist at SD distances you are doing well. IMO, don't shoot bullseye targets with SD guns. And if you really like bullseye shooting look for a gun designed for it or one with adjustable sights. I think you want something that will be hard to get with the equipment you have. Not talking about good groups, the guns you have can get them. But they won't ever let you see the target and have the POI in the target. They are just not designed for that.
 

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When the twenty-five yard pistol target was developed, it was intended to be used with handguns which had been zeroed to deliver a bullseye hit at twenty-five yards when a 6:00 hold was employed on the 2.5" white circle on the target. Trying to use that target for different ranges will require either different points of aim or adjustment in the shooter's sight alignment.
 
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