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Extending your Gun into the BG at that close range = asking to have your Gun taken away.


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Extending your Gun into the BG at that close range = asking to have your Gun taken away.
As quickly as he draws and fires several rounds into BGs chest, do you seriously think that BG is going to get much chance to take away the gun? Perhaps if he held the gun out to him for several seconds without firing the BG would be able to disarm him, but not the way Shootinbil is working things.
 

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As quickly as he draws and fires several rounds into BGs chest, do you seriously think that BG is going to get much chance to take away the gun?


Ah, you believe in the magic bullet theory. Some bad dudes get filled full of holes and have fight in them until they tire. Bu, you're the expert.


Whatever works for ya.


It's bad training.


Cheers.


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Agree.


For alternatives, see:


While Gunsite demonstrates one way of handling the cqb at the 6:45 mark there are a couple areas I have been taught differently and prefer over their methods. Just to name a couple areas I strongly disagree with....

I didn't watch more than a couple minutes but when he brings the gun into his preferred retention position (I prefer the number 2 position of the four count draw stroke) he leans back to fire. If you're ever in a fight in close it's never ideal to have you hips forward like that as you are easy to topple over.

Another thing he was doing was he was only 1-2 yards away from the target and already extending his arm. IMO it is unnecessary to extend your arm to get good hits at those distances. Again, similar to the OP you are taking the unnecessary risk of having your gun grabbed.
 

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Agreed....no need to extend arms in that situation. Forms bad habits and can lead to disaster.
BTW: It appears he does not squeeze the trigger until he is at what appears is his full extension.
 

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When in contact distance with the BG, know the gun may not be the best choice for defense. There are times one needs to make time and distance to bring the gun into play. This is why training in more than shooting a gun is needed.

Originally Posted by pittypat21
As quickly as he draws and fires several rounds into BGs chest, do you seriously think that BG is going to get much chance to take away the gun?
At the distance shown in video with a BG who knows how, shootinbil would never get his gun out of the holster. At contact distance you move in jam, smother and do your work on the inside with the tool of choice, destroying the other guy in the process. Or you close take control of the other guy then make room and time to bring gun into play.

My thoughts on the how to of it.
 
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When in contact distance with the BG, know the gun may not be the best choice for defense. There are times one needs to make time and distance to bring the gun into play. This is why training in more than shooting a gun is needed.



At the distance shown in video with a BG who knows how, shootinbil would never get his gun out of the holster. At contact distance you move in jam, smother and do your work on the inside with the tool of choice, destroying the other guy in the process. Or you close take control of the other guy then make room and time to bring gun into play.

My thoughts on the how to of it.
Agreed, there are other ways to defend yourself besides a gun. BUt most folks are ctiiquing the not the method he used, but the way he used it. If you do elect to go with your gun by the time you are fullly extended you should have already been shooting and creating distance. Not extending, then shooting.

We use to do this drill with real folks, not paper targets...and of course no ammo. That really shows you what works and what does not:smile:
 

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We use to do this drill with real folks, not paper targets...and of course no ammo. That really shows you what works and what does not:smile:
+1

One of the many benefits of FOF is exactly what you mention above. You can test what you have been taught and what what really works and what doesn't.
 

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As quickly as he draws and fires several rounds into BGs chest, do you seriously think that BG is going to get much chance to take away the gun?
What if the BG doesn't just stand there like a paper target?

What if he moves to the side and grabs the gun? Or jams the draw like Bill MO says?
 

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What if the BG doesn't just stand there like a paper target?

What if he moves to the side and grabs the gun? Or jams the draw like Bill MO says?
Yup.

The thing about sticking out the arm at full extension, like that, is that it halves the distance to the assailant and ends up being the least-strong position for retention. Quite simply, selecting the least advantageous option at the moment isn't preferable.

It's hard enough to rely upon a reliable presentation of a pocketed/holstered weapon if an aggressive assailant's at 10ft, let alone 3ft. Kicks to the knees/groin/chest, to repel the assailant; using the off-hand to repel; being force to go hands-on without a weapon for at least the opening stages; having to deal with an assailant that quickly has a weapon in hand ... any of these are possibilities that could happen, at least as likely as happening to present one's weapon sufficiently soon and capably to matter.

I hate CQB. In many ways, it's the great leveler of expectations and assumptions.
 

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Biggest issue I see is that if there is a legal right to draw and shoot, the BG has to possess the means to kill the GG. As slow as the draw was the GG would have been shot or stabbed several times before he would have been able to bring his gun to bear.

Try drawing against an already drawn weapon FOF, things will change.
 

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I see the shooter, OP, spending time saying "get back" in the very time slot where action could take place. By the time you are drawing the decision has been made and the time to back them up has already passed IMO. You may want to defend your heart, neck and head with the left arm, or thrust out onto the bad guy with much more commitment and force. You can move off the line of fire, crouch, move back, shoot from the guard position with one or two hands. You can also use the twist of your torso to assist in drawing and getting garments out of the way. You can zipper upward from the middle to the head with 4 shots. Many ideas come to mind.

This looks like a good effort, a good start but needs to consider a lot of other factors and build on this base drill. Please post more of your work, this could be very helpful, and interesting to follow. This drill (below) is the closest I can think to yours but I'm swatting the gun offline with a firm wrist block and shooting the first fake BG with two shots from guard. Now granted it's hard to critique a single drill or video without seeing the entire body of practice. Some drills are only isolating and working on specific skills.

PART 2 of 3 Collateral Drill just Ruger LCR22 - YouTube
 

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Extending your Gun into the BG at that close range = asking to have your Gun taken away.


- Sent from my 4 year old Desktop



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Exactly, if the BG can get between your wrist and shoulder, he will have better control of your weapon than you...
 
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