Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
With home invasion on the rise, and the methods becoming more refined, what if the BGs were impersonating LEOs? Though more commonly associated with traffic stops, it wouldn't be the first time.

On rare occasion, LEOs serving warrants have been given wrong/old addresses, wrong names, etc. by mistake; resulting in the wrong persons house being entered. Now think about the supreme courts decision to allow no knock entry to serve felony warrants. See where I'm going yet?

I would hate to shoot someone because of a mistake. I would also hate to be the victim of a clever home invasion. To me this seems like a no win situation, but I'd like to hear what others think.

-BTW, assume for whatever reason you are unable to see whether or not there are LE vehicles outside of your house, and there is no duty to retreat inside your house.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Great question.

I can't believe you posted this...I was just thinking about bringing this up. This is one of my biggest fears and is something that happens quite often here in NY. Police shields, jackets, radios...the whole 9. I've even heard of them keeping the act up the whole time they are in your home, not just to get in.

I'm clueless on what I would do. My only hope would be if the dog gave me a big enough "heads up" so that I could keep them out until I confirm with 911?....Dunno.

Really looking forward to hearing other replies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
supreme courts decision to allow no knock entry to serve felony warrants
Its obvious to me you are getting this from the moonbats of the mainstream media howling at the moon since SCOUS has rendered no such decision that I am aware of LOL

SCOUS did recently decide a case dealing with the admissibility of evidence where not only did the police knock but they announced , and then proceeded though the unlocked door by opening it within 4 to 5 seconds . SCOUS decided that IN THIS CASE the discovery of the evidence was inevitable so it would not be thrown out as " fruit of the poisonous tree" ( guns and dope iirc ) Point is that all the SCOUS did is REFUSE to set an arbitrary standard wait before entry .. Officers are not obliged to wait 5 minutes , or whatever before entering to serve the warrant , Nothing imho has changed from this decision.

As for What to do , Well why dont you do what is recomended anyway .
1. Gather the family in the safe room
2. Call 911
3. If you hear a lot of screams of "POLICE" " WARRANT " Announce back that you are armed ( good advise while on the phone to 911 no matter if its a swat team or a scrote team .
4. Play it by ear from there .. 911 will know or will find out if its there is a legit warrant service at your address or even in the neighborhood . Any LE team uppon hearing "I have a gun AND my family back here" will immediatly go from warrant service to containment of a possible hostage situation .

so you see its not a big thing , just do things like your supposed to and either way the truth will out fast enough .

edited to add
Here is the actual caselaw without moonbat hyperbole for thoes who want to bother to get the facts .

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&navby=case&vol=000&invol=04-1360
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Redneck Repairs said:
Its obvious to me you are getting this from the moonbats of the mainstream media howling at the moon since SCOUS has rendered no such decision that I am aware of LOL...
What! you mean the media was misleading!:smile:
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,564 Posts
Excellent post, RR. Thanks for clearing this up with your legal due diligence and analysis. You must have a touch of attorney blood in your veins...........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
nah R&G just about 10 years of being in a position to supervise both investigators and warrant service . You do pick up a little when you write your own warrant apps , affidavits , ect..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
Redneck, Who is it that will reccommend to us to gather the family up and run to the(a) "safe room" ??

We might be on the same "page" but when my door comes bustin in unannounced I will consider it a BG not my country trying to help me or ready to say,"oops my mistake" after they have shot up my house. If the LEO's are serving a warrent on me(the GG) and they breach my door in the middle of the night unannounced.......sorry to say it but.........they ARE the BG's.

My country owes me better than this. --------
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
111 Posts
Redneck Repairs said:
As for What to do , Well why dont you do what is recomended anyway .
1. Gather the family in the safe room
2. Call 911
3. If you hear a lot of screams of "POLICE" " WARRANT " Announce back that you are armed ( good advise while on the phone to 911 no matter if its a swat team or a scrote team .
4. Play it by ear from there .. 911 will know or will find out if its there is a legit warrant service at your address or even in the neighborhood . Any LE team uppon hearing "I have a gun AND my family back here" will immediatly go from warrant service to containment of a possible hostage situation .

so you see its not a big thing , just do things like your supposed to and either way the truth will out fast enough .
The only problem I see with this is time and the assumption that they are in fact good guys. I've never had my home breached by a SWAT team but, I have seen them to it on TV. I can't recall them giving too much notice of their arrival or entrance.

I see a scenerio like this playing out VERY quickly. Assuming there is no "heads up"....it's, "POLICE..SEARCH WARRANT!!!!" and your door is coming in. They're in before your butt cheeks clear the sofa. If my phone happened to be closer than my gun, I doubt I'd even be able to punch those 3 digits before a decision had to be made....good guys or bad guys?

My house has 3 bedrooms and 1 bath. A motivated person could be in any room, from the front door, in under 20 seconds. That's not even close to the amount of time needed to place a confirmation call to 911.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
RSSZ I wont debate the legitamicy of no knock warrents , and if you feel that strongly about it i sencerely wish you good luck and pray that you never face the situation mistaken service or not because in all likely hood you are going to come out in second place with a trained entry team. You note that i am not reccomending anything that endangers the homeowner or family . IMHO its due dilligance to see to my family's safety first off ( the same as seek cover in the open ) and address the threat as needed . Anyway I have had my say on the matter and will try and leave it to discussion among others LOL
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,575 Posts
When the Flash Bang Grenades come crashing through your windows & you're sitting there with your pistol in your hand but, are totally stunned and cannot see or hear anything...and then 3 seconds later...your face in in your carpet & there is an M16 pointed at your head...you'll know they were real LEOs. :yup:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
20,045 Posts
RR has pretty much summoned up the proper way to react in such a situation, IMHO. If it really is the police, they will pretty much do what he has said. If they're not, they will proabbly decide to take what they can from the rest of your house and get the heck out. If you choose to start shooting, and it is the police, you will probably go down hard. I'll put RIP in your title if it ever happens.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
195 Posts
About 15+ years ago there was a incident that happened in my area. Middle of the night LE and a swat team bust into the home of a retired couple. They wake up to the Swat entry and a struggle happens when they entered the bedroom. The couple end up pretty beat up and one of the LE officers gets his wrist broken by the old man.

Here is the background. The homeowners on several occasions reported the neighbors for noise and drugs. Local LE knew about the problem. Well in retallation the scumbag neighbor reports the couple for dealing drugs. Then the drug task force took action.

I guess it is true that no good deed goes unpunished.

This incident did make the local news for a very short time then simply went away. Only years later did I hear from a source I trust that there was a settlement and part of the agreement was that the victims would not give any info to the public or media about the incident.

Now many members here keep a firearm close at hand when home and/or sleeping. Put yourself in that situation, what is going to happen with a gun in your hand even if you realize they are LE and lower you gun? It is a very scary thought, even if very unlikely.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
I recall a bit that was in the news about 20 years ago. (pardon my poor memory of it) SOme guy was sitting in his living room when police broke down the door and entered his home. They DID NOT identify themselves. The man reached for a weapon, and was killed.

It seems that some desk jockey screwed up and sent the police to an address that was a few years out of date. The whole thing was a mess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
GoodSamaritan said:
I recall a bit that was in the news about 20 years ago. (pardon my poor memory of it) SOme guy was sitting in his living room when police broke down the door and entered his home. They DID NOT identify themselves. The man reached for a weapon, and was killed.

It seems that some desk jockey screwed up and sent the police to an address that was a few years out of date. The whole thing was a mess.
I'm sitting here on my couch with my XD holstered on my hip, wondering about that very situation...then I read your post. A police/swat raid is FAST. They have to secure the whole house within seconds. How do you force them to slow down so that you can make the 911 call to verify before they're on you with a gun in your face (or you've been shot because you've drawn your gun "just in case")? Shouting "I have a gun" is a great way to get shot without even showing your weapon. Once they're through the front door, they don't stop.

While I appreciate the advice given on what to do, it just doesn't seem practical (depending on the layout of your house and immediate location of all occupants). If they busted through my door right now, I'd have a choice to make. Draw & shoot (and maybe mistakenly shoot a cop and most certainly be shot myself), or raise my hands and hope they're good guys that just made a mistake.

Truly frightening.:confused:
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,575 Posts
Well, if they are fully outfitted professional SWAT - Just what exact location on the body are you going to aim for anyway ??? because they will be wearing full body armor w/the highest available threat level & they will be everywhere at the exact same time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,780 Posts
A more likely real life scenario for average citizens to be concerned with day or night is the following:

Harris County, Texas

From the Houston Chronicle of June 21, 2006

Man posing as utility worker fatally shot in county

A man pretending to be a utility worker was fatally shot overnight during an apparent home invasion robbery attempt in northwest Harris County, authorities said.

The suspect, who has not been identified, was killed about 1 a.m. while struggling with the homeowner in the 3300 block of Breckenridge.

He was wearing what appeared to be a CenterPoint Energy uniform when he knocked on the door, warning of a gas leak, officials said.

"The homeowner thought that something was amiss because apparently nobody in the area has gas,'' Harris County Sheriff's Lt. John Martin said.

The homeowner grabbed a pistol and went through the garage door, where he encountered the phony utility worker and least two other people.

"One of the suspects jumped him and there was a brief struggle,'' Martin said.

The homeowner was shot once in the arm but was able to return fire, fatally striking the man in the uniform. The other suspects fled in what appeared to be a Chevrolet Tahoe or GMC Denali, authorities said.

Investigators don't believe the man was a legitimate CenterPoint worker. He was wearing a badge that identified himself as a restaurant employee. They also found a pair of handcuffs inside a tool kit he was carrying.

"It was clear he was intent on doing some kind of robbery or home invasion,'' Martin said.

The wounded homeowner was taken to Ben Taub General Hospital with non life-threatening injuries, officials said.

The incident remains under investigation.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/3989147.html
- Janq
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
143,575 Posts
Any scum (or group of scum) willing to do a home invasion will likely either kill you or leave you tied up in a closet to either be found by some miracle alive days later or to a slow death.
There can be no compromise with home invaders.
The have the cover of your house walls to do their dirty deeds in private & usually prefer No Witnesses.
I always think about that one elderly married couple who got tied up in chairs facing one another & then they got tortured & one was forced to watch the other being murdered.
No mercy for home invaders.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,780 Posts
QKShooter said:
Any scum (or group of scum) willing to do a home invasion will likely either kill you or leave you tied up in a closet to either be found by some miracle alive days later or to a slow death.
There can be no compromise with home invaders...No mercy for home invaders.
I could not agree more.

- Janq
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top