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Discussion Starter #1
This is inspired by the "homeower vs. BLM" thread also running, but not limited to that exact scenario. This is a hypothetical, so the idea of "I would never get in that situation" doesn't apply. For whatever reason, you are in this situation. And yes, I know, there is never enough information and details could change things. The details should be part of the discussion.

Hypothetical:
  • You are at your suburban home. (whether you actually live in the 'burbs or not - it's a hypothetical)
  • Protesters are marching by and they are getting rowdy, possibly throwing things.
  • It looks like they might come in your yard and approach your house.
  • You are armed.
  • You have called the police. They won't help, but just to check the box.
  • Your goals are to, if possible, avoid personal injury, legally deter property damage, not make things worse and not go to jail.
  • Of course, you are being video recorded from several cell phones in the crowd.
Questions for discussion:
  • Do you stand out front with a gun as a deterrent, or stay inside behind cover?
  • They are going to be yelling and baiting you. What do you say back, if anything?
  • What is your ideal primary weapon? Handgun, carbine, shotgun?
  • If it is a shotgun, what do you think about having non-lethal rounds to start? If that is a good idea, what kind? Tear gas? Rubber bullets? Plastic pellets? Koosh pellets? (that is a thing) My guess is even blanks may get them to scatter. We always say warning shots are a bad idea, but would this be an exception?
  • When would it rise to a level you would consider shooting for effect? In my state, the threshold is "Imminent threat of grave bodily harm." I'd be pretty close to that from the get-go, but the law might not see it that way. Obviously incoming live rounds or threat thereof make the range hot, but what about the gray areas? Thrown rocks? Molotov cocktail about to be thrown? A half dozen of them coming at you? And if it is that last one, how close would you let them get? Any difference on your threshold with lethal vs non-lethal ammo?
  • Here is big one: Say you do get incoming rounds and it is clear lethal force SD situation. You still have a crowd. I think you are only going to be legally justified shooting at the shooter. Even if you see the shooter, how do you avoid collateral damage?
  • What other tactical considerations would you have?
The bottom line is what is the best overall strategy to handle a situation like this?
 

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For me it would be outside at my front porch so:1 I can see what is going on in front and the sides of my house. Wife watching video monitors of rear of house. 2 So the so called protesters know that this house is being protected by a heavily armed homeowner and to move on. If i am in the house they would not know until I started shooting out the windows. Give them a chance to move to a softer target. Not concerned about being cat called or recorded. Shooting starts the minute they come rushing the house or throwing fire bombs etc.
Weapons. 1911 on my hip. AR15 in a sling and a shotgun in my hand. Screw the non lethal rounds. That is the police game, not mine.
 

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Me and my wife armed with handguns and long guns in second floor windows. They try to breach a door or window, they die. They light anything to throw, they die. If they get inside, there is a choke point coming to the second floor. They appear, they die.

I learned my tactics from watching western movies. They may get us, but we will be surrounded by a pile of spent brass. :D

I will worry about legalities later. When you are pushing seventy-four with medical issues, life in prison may not be a deterrent. You get free medical.
 

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I'm sitting in my lawn chair, drinking my iced tea, ninety yards from the road, watching the show. Anything flying my way through the air probably meets the definition of deadly force.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Interesting with all this stuff happening, only half the respondents have a real answer. Thanks for those, BTW. But re: the other half, it seems like not everyone is really thinking this is a possibility, or they just don't know what they would do.
 

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Because of the possibility of Molotov cocktails, and there being several people involved, I don't think I could stay inside. I probably have to make my stand on the front porch for better visibility.
 

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I might be outside with a camcorder set up on a tripod with the usual 1911 on my hip plus a 12ga 870 and if I can find one a little beauty like this replacing the choke.
 

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Interesting with all this stuff happening, only half the respondents have a real answer. Thanks for those, BTW. But re: the other half, it seems like not everyone is really thinking this is a possibility, or they just don't know what they would do.
That's an assumption on your part. Maybe some don't wish to make a "premeditated" response on the internet. I do find your scenario erroneous in presuming the crowd is going to simply stand there as one of its own opens fire on a home or home owner, thus making a response questionable. I think target acquisition would be simplified by the scattering of rats.

As for my plan, I maintain a rigid line of flexibility--I will do whatever I need to do at the time. Plan A through Z, so to speak.
 

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The insurgents can learn the answer to this the easy or the hard way.
 

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My wife and I were discussing this very thing earlier. Since in our state we cannot apply deadly force to protect property, we would have to allow them to breach our fence, which, at the driveway, is about 60 yards or so from the house. Our dilemma is that if we are out front, we have no cover. We also have no "upstairs" set up a defense. Our house is about 60-70% windows. I would be tempted to be outside with my wife inside. She would have the AR and her Sig, I would probably have my 1911 on my hip, the Noreen or Mini on my shoulder on a sling, and the Winchester 97 in my hands. I would try to do my best to encourage them to move along. But I don't do warning shots. And I think, if there is a CROWD of people coming toward me, given what has been transpiring, I WOULD be in fear of life or limb, and would use deadly force if the crowd started coming toward me after scaling my fence and ignoring my warnings to move along. As the saying goes, I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

If I see fire, I'm shooting at the fire. If I am being shot at, I'm shooting back. Heck, the Guard and police in Louisville (two of each) got away with shooting nearly 30 rounds into a crowd of people (and killing one) after hearing two gunshots. What's good for them should be good for me in defense of my life at home. So yes, I may not make it, but there WILL be a pile of brass nearby.
 

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Interesting with all this stuff happening, only half the respondents have a real answer. Thanks for those, BTW. But re: the other half, it seems like not everyone is really thinking this is a possibility, or they just don't know what they would do.
I watch the news and keep up to date. Realistically in my part of the country I'm 99.9999% sure this will Not happen so it's not that I don't have an answer I just don't need an answer. Naive?? Maybe but I'm going by my situation not maybes and what may have been.
 

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For your hypothetical situation, I’ll assume I’m at my son’s house while he’s out of town and we are unable to evacuate to either my house or her father’s house. If there is time, and the neighbors cooperate, we block off both ends of the street and defend from there.
If not, I’m at the back of the carport or in the storage room with the lights out. I have my 1911, his AR-15, one of his pistols, and maybe a 12 ga. My DIL has all four girls with her in the bedroom, and she looking down the hallway armed with a shotgun and every other pistol in the house, and a very protective Lab/Border Collie mix. I am in the dark, so I have concealment, and the vehicles give me some cover. My reaction depends on their actions. If they are just spray painting and maybe breaking some car windows, they will never know I’m there. At most, I’ll tell them to move along. If I think my family is is danger (the girls are all under 6), and I have time, everyone heads to the back yard. (It’s a big yard with a tall fence and a metal storage building they can hide behind and a large oak tree for me.) Last resort, I open fire. The weapon mix changes if I came there prepared to evacuate them and if I was able to bring a backup.
 
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