I am trying to locate some Hornady Personal Defense 40S&W 180grain ammo. Everywhere I look, they are sold out of it. I want to buy some to keep in my open carry gun as I only have FMJ right now. Anyone know of anywhere that has this ammo in stock?
Hornady Personal Defense
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I'm not a fan of the whole Critical Defense thing because it's not designed to FBI spec.
You want JHP for your gun? Here:
Ammo, Ammunition, Rifle Ammunition, 9mm Ammo, Military Surplus
You want JHP for your gun? Here:
Ammo, Ammunition, Rifle Ammunition, 9mm Ammo, Military Surplus
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I did a little searching online and came up with mostly good reviews. I don't suppose you have any links to the differing opinions?
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Well, it just so happens that I have a link to Dr. Gary Roberts who is a very well respected ballistics expert who's job it is to test various bullet designs and ballistic vests etc. He has a page that lists his top picks for the best self defense ammo choices for each handgun caliber. If it's not on the list he doesn't recommend it because it did not meet his and the FBI's requirements for whatever reason. A round must pass a series of tests in calibrated ballistic gel in order to be on his recommendation list. Believe me he tests everything. He has regular updates on AR15.com
Anyway, it's here. Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo
Also here where a .38spl Hornady Critical Defense load failed to expand when fired through 4 layers of denim. BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp - M4Carbine.net Forums
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there was a follow up on the .38sp and it peformed much better,also 4 other .38 rounds failed to expand as well. there is a good reason the Hornady CD in .40S&W is not on his list. its not available yet to the best of my knowledge.
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Pick a round that:
1. Feeds reliably in your pistol;
2. Penetrates 12-15 inches in gel tests; and
3. Reliably expands (understanding that none are 100%).
Low recoil, low flash, corrosion resistance, and crimped cases to resist setback are also good features.
Beyond that, they will all work. In one test, a certain bullet may be marginally better. In another test, you will see a different result. You can overthink this and make yourself crazy!
1. Feeds reliably in your pistol;
2. Penetrates 12-15 inches in gel tests; and
3. Reliably expands (understanding that none are 100%).
Low recoil, low flash, corrosion resistance, and crimped cases to resist setback are also good features.
Beyond that, they will all work. In one test, a certain bullet may be marginally better. In another test, you will see a different result. You can overthink this and make yourself crazy!
Truer words were never spoken!!!
Cool - thanks for the links!
[quote =cmdrdredd;1336039 ]Also here where a .38spl Hornady Critical Defense load failed to expand when fired through 4 layers of denim. BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp - M4Carbine.net Forums[/QUOTE]
I thought the whole idea of the Critical Defense was to prevent clogging so it would expand. That test seems to show differently. I would really like to see more tests of that...
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There was a follow up report in which Dr. Roberts allowed Hornady to submit another batch of FTX (hand picked if you ask me). It miraculously worked in the second round of testing. I'm sure that somebody will be right along with a link to the more successful testing.
As for me, I'll wait until Hornady hand picks every bullet in the box before I'll buy it.
I want to let you know, at the risk of being flamed, that if you are shooting any caliber less powerful than the 9mm/.38 Special (for self defense) should never employ expanding bullets. The reasons for this are:
a) slower moving bullets may not reliably expand;
b) "putting the brakes" on slower moving projectiles will almost certainly prevent the penetration needed to acheive the desired results.
"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." - Erich Martel
a) slower moving bullets may not reliably expand;
b) "putting the brakes" on slower moving projectiles will almost certainly prevent the penetration needed to acheive the desired results.
"Shot placement is king, penetration is queen. Everything else is angels dancing on the heads of pins." - Erich Martel
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:haha::rofl::haha: I concur 100%!
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Right, but as you can see. Dr. Roberts does not personally recommend any Hornady load for any caliber currently to market. That's good enough for me to use something different. Should it work? Probably yes, but I sleep better knowing that someone thoroughly tested the loading I carry and use in my defensive pistols and that same expert says it's good to go.
Winchester White Box JHP from Wal Mart will probably work too, but few people rely on it because there are more tested rounds available that have real world working results from various situations and police agencies.
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I can't speak to the ballistics because I don't have the ability to do controlled ballistics testing. All I can go by is what I read and what I experience at the range. American Rifleman & Handgun magazine both gave favorable reviews. I took 50 rounds of Critical Defense and 50 rounds of Golden Sabers to the range today (along with 100 rounds of WWB FMJ) to do some testing. Yep... it was an expensive trip... but I want to know that what I'm feeding through my EDC is reliable. Both the Critical Defense & Golden Sabers both fed reliably with no FTEs or FTFs. Now I know there will be a difference between 124g and 115g but I didn't think it would be THAT noticeable. Even shooting the 115g Critical Defense side by side with the WWB 115g... it was noticeably less muzzle flip. I had great groupings with the Golden Sabers... but VERY tight and even better groupings with the Critical Defense. I went through 5 targets for each load (10 shots per target) and ever time the Critical Defense had better placement than the Golden Sabers. The control was better, less recoil, and it didn't seem as loud either but maybe that was just me.
Nothing against the Golden Sabers... it is a great, tested load that is very reliable. Ballistics being the only ??? when it comes to the Critical Defense... if we can get some consecutive good reports on the CD then I'm sure I'll probably choose that to load my EDC. I'll probably go through here in the next few weeks and throw another 50 or so down range just to make sure... but if the next 50 were like the first 50 then I'm really going to enjoy it. They were a pleasure to shoot. BTW... the XD9sc is so much fun to shoot! I love it!
Nothing against the Golden Sabers... it is a great, tested load that is very reliable. Ballistics being the only ??? when it comes to the Critical Defense... if we can get some consecutive good reports on the CD then I'm sure I'll probably choose that to load my EDC. I'll probably go through here in the next few weeks and throw another 50 or so down range just to make sure... but if the next 50 were like the first 50 then I'm really going to enjoy it. They were a pleasure to shoot. BTW... the XD9sc is so much fun to shoot! I love it!
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Hornady make some great premium loads. anybody thats dumping on them needs to get a clue.
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