Defensive Carry banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,193 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I am house-sitting (visiting to check on it, not staying overnight), and got distracted by the Warrior Code thread, so I didn't stop by the house I am tending to until after dark. I got to thinking, suppose I got into a confrontation with a BG. I don't think Castle Doctrine in my state covers me on other peoples' property.

Am I right to assume that the would handle it differently than if I were in a confrontation at my own house?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
If it isn't your house, you have to handle the confrontation just as you would anywhere outside your own house.

Let me expand that a bit. In every state I know of, you have to be the owner of the house or the renter of the property (depending on the specific state). I am not aware of any state in which your being an invited house sitter somehow grants you the rights of the actual home owner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
If you were staying at the house, maybe the castle might apply, as it is your temporary residence. Since you are only stopping in now and then, I do not think it would apply. Now if you were attacked directly, that changes things a little. If you are cornered and in imminent danger of being killed... otherwise, a challenge and the threat of the police being on the way are your safest bet
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
541 Posts
If it isn't your house, you have to handle the confrontation just as you would anywhere outside your own house.

Let me expand that a bit. In every state I know of, you have to be the owner of the house or the renter of the property (depending on the specific state). I am not aware of any state in which your being an invited house sitter somehow grants you the rights of the actual home owner.
I'm on Tapatalk so I can't see where the OP is from, but I'm thinking that in Texas, the Castle law would extend to his circumstances. As I understand it, it applies to any "residence" (including RVs and campers) that the person has reasonable belief to consider themselves in control of.

Edit: just saw that he said he wasn't actually living at the house, but rather dropping in from time to time. That probably changes everything.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
13,164 Posts
I'm on Tapatalk so I can't see where the OP is from, but I'm thinking that in Texas, the Castle law would extend to his circumstances. As I understand it, it applies to any "residence" (including RVs and campers) that the person has reasonable belief to consider themselves in control of.

Edit: just saw that he said he wasn't actually living at the house, but rather dropping in from time to time. That probably changes everything.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
I think I agree, that changes everything. Next time send the dogs in first.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,268 Posts
Outside your own home is a legal gray area regardless of laws. Even if fully justified would you really want to shot someone and face the financial and legal aftermath to protect someone else's house when they are not even home. Stop even thinking of these things. It should not even be a consideration. See someone call 911 and get out of there. Simple as that and you get to go back to your normal life without the threat of prison hanging over you and emptying you bank account to pay for legal assistance. In any case, unless you know everyone that the home owner knows, you could be shooting a friend or relative of theirs who thinks you are the bad guy. Heck, I am even on the fence when it comes to shooting to defend my wife. Depends if she was bitchy that day. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,955 Posts
If it isn't your house, you have to handle the confrontation just as you would anywhere outside your own house.

Let me expand that a bit. In every state I know of, you have to be the owner of the house or the renter of the property (depending on the specific state). I am not aware of any state in which your being an invited house sitter somehow grants you the rights of the actual home owner.

Ky. Castle and stand your ground applies any place you have a legal right to be. As invited and asked by the home owner you have a legal right to be there where as the BG is trespassing.

Here and in a lot of other states I would think with similar laws you can also act with lethal force to prevent an arson or other such felony if you would have been legal to do for your own property. Im not encouraging anyone to do that.
Simply stating my states laws. In addition if you have stand your ground laws in your state and are legally on that property,,, well a threat to your life is a threat to your life and SD laws apply.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
In any circumstance retreat and call 911 is the best way to handle any situation, if you are confronted and faced with physical harm: defend yourself is the only way to handle the situation.
In most situations where you are forced to use your weapon to defend your life it matters little what the law says; you stay alive and sort things out later having used common sense and common decency. If you fire a weapon in a self defense situation your life will change forever and you will most likely be second guessing the issue for a very long time. Just do your best and things will come out the best they will, that's all you can expect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dls

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
I do not know your state laws but I will share my input. NC has a Castle Doctrine (quite a nice one now) and it would apply in your circumstance.

Same as if you check into a hotel for a night or two, it does become your temporary residence. In that case, you are not forced to retreat and may defend as you would your own home (if your state has a Castle Doctrine). Funny enough, your situation came up in our CCW class and the instructor (a police sergeant) explained it exactly this way.

Again, this temporary residence bit is not strictly NC law, I am fairly sure it applies everywhere. So for 'housesitting', if you are staying the night, it definitely counts as your temporary residence for all intents purposes.

Obviously you're not looking for a conflict but if one did come to your door, don't be afraid to use it if you have to.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,046 Posts
I think you're looking at it all wrong. If you're in a situation where you believe you are in immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or being crippled, you shoot the guy.

If you're worried about whether "castle doctrine" is going to apply in your circumstance, then you're likely not in a situation which requires shooting the person.

If you have a clean shoot, then you're likely going to be okay whether castle doctrine applies or not. If you're depending on castle doctrine to clear a questionable shooting, you're likely in a bad way whether you were in your own house or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Well, some states (unfortunately) lack a Castle Doctrine, so you cannot use deadly force unless presented with a threat. Here in NC, them (BG) simply entering or having entered your residence is enough to justify it.

My rule would be... retreat one room, if they even so much turn your way and walk a step, bang.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,665 Posts
...you owe it to your freedom to KNOW...assuming could make for an empty place at the table and less food on it...

...every one of us would be profited if we would keep a small handful of printed material to refer to often, such as:

...concealed handgun laws of our state
...use of deadly force laws of our state
...dangerous animal control laws of our state
...other laws pertinent to home protection like our version of the Castle Doctrine, if we have one...
...our state's penal code...at least the weapons section

...I've seen over a hundred questions on forums like yours...and answered dozens of them, but when it's your butt on the line if you make a legal mistake...it's well worth your doing your own homework and telling US what the law says...in case we come visit your state...you can play ask-a-cop, you can ask us, but we aren't going to be there when you explain to the guy in the high chair why you did what you did...

...if you need help finding your state's laws...come back at us and I'm sure someone will help you dig...

...the above offered in the spirit of keeping free Americans free...
So, I am house-sitting (visiting to check on it, not staying overnight), and got distracted by the Warrior Code thread, so I didn't stop by the house I am tending to until after dark. I got to thinking, suppose I got into a confrontation with a BG. I don't think Castle Doctrine in my state covers me on other peoples' property.

Am I right to assume that the would handle it differently than if I were in a confrontation at my own house?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,665 Posts
...Texas is one...
If it isn't your house, you have to handle the confrontation just as you would anywhere outside your own house.

Let me expand that a bit. In every state I know of, you have to be the owner of the house or the renter of the property (depending on the specific state). I am not aware of any state in which your being an invited house sitter somehow grants you the rights of the actual home owner.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,046 Posts
Well, some states (unfortunately) lack a Castle Doctrine, so you cannot use deadly force unless presented with a threat. Here in NC, them (BG) simply entering or having entered your residence is enough to justify it.

My rule would be... retreat one room, if they even so much turn your way and walk a step, bang.
I can tell you, even in "castle doctrine" states, people have been charged with bad shootings inside the house, regardless of castle doctrine. If the circumstances are so obviously egregious that there was no way to articulate an actual threat, people have been charged.

There have been at least two cases I remember reading about in the past 12 - 18 months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
I can tell you, even in "castle doctrine" states, people have been charged with bad shootings inside the house, regardless of castle doctrine. If the circumstances are so obviously egregious that there was no way to articulate an actual threat, people have been charged.

There have been at least two cases I remember reading about in the past 12 - 18 months.
Mind sharing? I'd like to read about those, see what the circumstances were.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,665 Posts
..."Castle Doctrines" and other deadly force laws are only helpful to us if we KNOW them and act within their limitations...they're not a "get-out-of-jail-free" card...they're written to help a reasonable man/woman know when they're justified should they make the decision to shoot someone in a life-threatening situation...and to protect us if we have to...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,046 Posts
Mind sharing? I'd like to read about those, see what the circumstances were.
I'd love to. But I'm too tired right now to do the research. Feel free to check out google though. IIRC, one was a Florida case, but I'm not going to dig around right now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
Oh I don't doubt those cases exist, but I don't know the circumstances.

I will say these few things, which go for everyone here regarding a home invasion:

  • Always arm yourself first, if you aren't already.
  • Call 911 and keep them on the line so everything is recorded (this is why practicing one-hand grip is important).
  • If you choose to find the threat (inside), retreat one room.
  • If the threat approaches your direction (especially after your retreat), handle it as a dangerous intent.
  • Articulate all of this via 911, so it is recorded for your own protection.

This is the theory, of course in practice this plan might go differently but that is the general idea. The 911 recording is your 'proof' that you did not want to 'hunt' someone but they came to you and were a threat.

Remember, it's the DA that has to charge you. If he sees the evidence and you seemed to be acting purely in defense and not an aggressor, I doubt you'd be charged at all. The DA knows that if all the evidence (the 911 call) is on your side, then no jury would ever convict you, they won't waste their time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,665 Posts
...might be fine for you as a plan...but they don't "go for everyone here" by a long shot...

...no reason to demand anyone call 911 and keep them on the line...I only have two hands and one will have a gun and the other a light...

...the retreating idea isn't required by law here and is not practical to a lot of house plans...

...the "dangerous intent" and legal justification to shoot is covered the second he enters my house by force...

...the 911 call will be placed AFTER the threat is stopped...stopping the threat will be the only focus until that is done...

...and that's MY plan...and I won't say that it "goes for everyone here" but it goes for me...

...few plans work well for everyone...state laws and personal experiences make us too different for the "one size fits all" approach...
Oh I don't doubt those cases exist, but I don't know the circumstances.

I will say these few things, which go for everyone here regarding a home invasion:

  • Always arm yourself first, if you aren't already.
  • Call 911 and keep them on the line so everything is recorded (this is why practicing one-hand grip is important).
  • If you choose to find the threat (inside), retreat one room.
  • If the threat approaches your direction (especially after your retreat), handle it as a dangerous intent.
  • Articulate all of this via 911, so it is recorded for your own protection.

This is the theory, of course in practice this plan might go differently but that is the general idea. The 911 recording is your 'proof' that you did not want to 'hunt' someone but they came to you and were a threat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
350 Posts
I know a lot of states have quite good laws on self defense. However, there are others that do not. Even still, in cases where you are justified in shooting someone, it is right to? That's a question you will have to answer for yourself. Either way, you will have to face the potential legal repercussions of those actions. I know we say 'better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6' around here, and it sounds great until you end up having to eat PB&J sandwiches for the next several years.

My point is that you must be careful in following the rules to the T. By having a 911 recording, you have definite proof that you did, proof that may decide your fate if it comes to trial. It's great that you can keep yourself alive, but you also want to keep yourself out of the slammer. The Castle Doctrine in our supporting states is great, but unfortunately all do not have that luxury (and there have been cases where it was still considered gratuitous manslaughter).
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
Top