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By Vic

December 21, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
Leon, Although you rhymed, a no time, was you analysis worth a dime. My central point still stands unanswered: The Second Amendment does not give gun rights to Americans for the purposes of their individual security, or to fight against a tyrannical American government. The gun rights are for Americans to come together as a “Well Regulated Militia” to fight other governments. Please prove me wrong by citing a High Court decision, or scholarly interpretation that backs up your contention. Finally, I’ve been to many, not all, but many of our Revolutionary and Civil War Battlefields. These experiences pale in comparison to the three actual real battlefields I defended our nation on while in the Army.
:confused:
 

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I've learned, in my short time here on Earth....it's really hard to 'fix' stupid.....:rolleyes:
 

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I read someone's signature once that said something like, "Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you to death with experience."

Proverbs 26:4 *¶Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Proverbs 27:22 *¶Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him.


Regards,
Jerry
 

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First you gotta hit'm upside the head with a 2x4 to get their attention, then grunts and gestures might work. Failing to communicate requires more applications of the 2x4.
 

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Dayton Daily News, columns and blogs, etc.


By Vic

December 21, 2009 3:07 PM | Link to this
Leon, Although you rhymed, a no time, was you analysis worth a dime. My central[ Vic's] point still stands unanswered: The Second Amendment does not give gun rights to Americans for the purposes of their individual security, or to fight against a tyrannical American government. The gun rights are for Americans to come together as a “Well Regulated Militia” to fight other governments. Please prove me wrong by citing a High Court decision, or scholarly interpretation that backs up your contention. Finally, I’ve been to many, not all, but many of our Revolutionary and Civil War Battlefields. These experiences pale in comparison to the three actual real battlefields I defended our nation on while in the Army.
:confused:
Correct, the Bill of Rights does not give any rights to Americans.
The Bill of Right recognizes and guarantees the rights already held by the people.

Court case. HELLER and the scholarly texts that were part of the Supreme Court case.
 

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I'm grateful for his service, but embarrassed by his lack of education and motivation to do a Google search AND READ ANY NUMBER OF FIRST PAGE HITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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How do you argue with the truly stupid?
Badly, or not at all. My grandfather was correct in his estimation of the chances of success, in this area.

Others are more eloquent:

Can't fix stupid.

Still, the person in that post poses a legitimate question: What proof is there that the original goals behind the 2A were something other than to support preparations for militias?


I believe the whole of the discourse during the Constitutional debates and the ratification debates by the Congress and in each of the states clearly covers the question of why the 2A was created. As to the manner of the wording, that's a 1700's holdover of grammar, framing the context of the point being made.

In short, I would point people to The Founders' Second Amendment: Origins of the Right to Bear Arms, by Stephen Halbrook, 2008, The Independent Institute. Most of what a person would need to read in order to understand the breadth of discussion on the matter at the time of the framing and ratification can be found referenced in this one book. No references I found support the person's contention that militia preparation was the purpose of the 2A, in the least way. But that's just my read. Review for yourself, by checking out the book and its coverage of the material of the day.

Prior discussion -- US Constitution 101: Applicability of protections to all citizens.
 

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Please prove me wrong by citing a High Court decision, or scholarly interpretation that backs up your contention.
District of Columbia v. Heller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA v. HELLER

To quote the High Court:
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
That is his answer. Has he been living under a rock for the past year?
 

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First you gotta hit'm upside the head with a 2x4 to get their attention, then grunts and gestures might work. Failing to communicate requires more applications of the 2x4.
2x4's require learned concepts which he has not the ability to acquire...perhaps start with sticks and rocks?
 

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My answer to them would be.... "LOL, that's a good joke as I know you can't be serious and be that stupid ".

I have heard several people argue the only reason "the people " had a right to carry a gun back then, was because they had to shoot their food to eat. But then, some people listen to MSNBC and believe everything they say. LOL.
 

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If it something a piece of paper, a government, or a person gives you it isn't a right its a privilege since it's up to the giver whether they will allow you to have it. A right is something your born with and comes from the fact that you take upon yourself the personal responsibility of its possession. The bill of rights only restricts the government in any attempts to abridge someones natural rights. You don't have a right to speak because someone allows it, you have it because you wont shut up. Which is the best way of looking at all rights. It's always sad when a person starts thinking they need someones authority and approval in order to exercise free will.
 

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"Never argue with an idiot. People watching are hard pressed to tell the difference"
 

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You can't argue with an idiot , they are to damn dumb to know when they are beat .
 

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The only cure for stupidity is natural process. Remove all warning labels and stupid will fix itself.
 

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Development of the Second Amendment

I was about to suggest the excellent "That Every Man Be Armed" for it's clear explanation of the actual, original meaning of the term "well regulated militia." Then go on to quote George Washington's comment that no citizen shalll ever be denied the use of arms... Jefferson's "the great idea, then, is that every man be armed"... Patrick Henry's comment that he, like all of us today, wish all disputes could be resolved by civil discourse. But given that this is a demonstrated impossibility "I take up my rifle, and thank Providence that He has put it in my hand!" I thought about quoting the same greek and roman and French etc philosophers that the founders were reading... and how they formed the ideas they did, and how those ideas are true for us even these many years since 1789...
But then I read Tic's comment, that "you can explain it to him but you can't understand it for him." and I knew I was out-gunned. The simple yet beautiful clarity of that comment says it all; my arrogant tip-toe thru history would add nothing to the discussion.
Oh, and like many of you, I too have been to "real" battlefields (whatever that means), most recently to Iraq as a 52 year old combat engineer... and I found it considerably less awe-inspiring than the guided walk I took at Gettysburg...
In the end, it's all about Liberty, and the responsibility of all citizens to work for the preservation of Liberty, whether we carry an M-4 rifle in foreign lands, a 1911 pistol "in close" at the grocery store, or a 0.05mm mechanical pencil with which to pummel our Congress-persons.
 

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