[puncho]

Without the drug wars in Miami, Florida during the 80's we probably wouldn't have CWP in Florida or other states. As a result of all the gun violence in Miami during the 80's drug wars, the Florida Legislature passed a law that allowed citzens to conceal carry in the state with a permit. The murder rate in the state of Florida dropped 40% after the first year of concealed carry in Florida. Many other states followed after seeing Florida's murder rate drop. The cocaine cowboys helped our cause and freedoms to legally carry in this country.:congrats:

 

[Slim_45]

I must say i knew nothing about this.....thanks :embarassed:

 

[GoldenSaber]

You are right, Puncho The drug wars in Northern Cuba... ooops... I mean Miami are directly related to Florida's CWP becoming a reality. Crime and murders were so rampant the state and federal government felt that only by arming citizens could they assist in stemming the flow. They were right. George Bush 1 even came to Miami due to the seriousness. Watch the documentary movie "Cocaine Cowboys" to get the facts. However, now this same government tries to push statistics that carrying guns doesn't lessen crimes. Uhhh.....

 

[dukalmighty]

I hate to say it but a lot of crime today is a direct result of illegal drugs

 

[mi2az]

I hate to say it but a lot of crime today is a direct result of illegal drugs

Also, Acccording to Sheriff Joe Apprio, the majority of criminals in AZ prisons is the direct results of illegal Aliens.

 

[Ram Rod]

Wow! I mean....wow! What an eye opener.

 

[puncho]

Wow! I mean....wow! What an eye opener.

You saw cocaine cowboys too?

 

[Oldskoolfan]

Without the drug wars in Miami, Florida during the 80's we probably wouldn't have CWP in Florida or other states. As a result of all the gun violence in Miami during the 80's drug wars, the Florida Legislature passed a law that allowed citzens to conceal carry in the state with a permit. The murder rate in the state of Florida dropped 40% after the first year of concealed carry in Florida. Many other states followed after seeing Florida's murder rate drop. The cocaine cowboys helped our cause and freedoms to legally carry in this country.:congrats:

You got some sources for your stats? Please post them. Thank you.

 

[puncho]

You got some sources for your stats? Please post them. Thank you.

"Shall Issue": The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws

 

[GoldenSaber]

"Shall Issue": The New Wave of Concealed Handgun Permit Laws

I guess Puncho's link pretty much says it all. Any questions? :spankme:

 

[dogrunner]

Sorry to argue with your theory, but there was a movement to modernize the licensing structure in Florida well before the mess in So. Fla. became a cause celebre!

There is one prominent name that contributed to the enactment of that antiquated 1894 law tho, Marion Hamer of the Unified Sportsmen of Fla.........that woman pushed and cajoled and was the real point of the spear for change. Truth be told, there was a lot of sentiment existing in the Legislature for the move years prior....ie: Leighton Baker, of Peterson's gunshop fame in Mt. Dora, pushed for a basic change that resulted in a lot of clarification to the 1894 licensing statute and permitted a lot of legitimate use that truly was illegal less a license prior to enactment. A lot of griping about the need for 68 licenses to carry statewide had been publicized widely and added to the law change.........too, both the Florida Police Chief's assn and Florida Sheriff's assn strongly supported the law.

Crediting a bunch of scumbags such as the so called "Cocaine Cowboys" ignores the good work of a lot of honest people that really engineered the law change.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I guess Puncho's link pretty much says it all. Any questions? :spankme:

+1

Facinating read, lots of good history........I am only a third the way through and have to go to bed but I will be reading this all evening tomorrow. :35:

 

[CTurner91]

Without the drug wars in Miami, Florida during the 80's we probably wouldn't have CWP in Florida or other states. As a result of all the gun violence in Miami during the 80's drug wars, the Florida Legislature passed a law that allowed citzens to conceal carry in the state with a permit. The murder rate in the state of Florida dropped 40% after the first year of concealed carry in Florida. Many other states followed after seeing Florida's murder rate drop. The cocaine cowboys helped our cause and freedoms to legally carry in this country.:congrats:

Now if only my state would learn from history we might have our rights restored.

 

[TedBeau]

Sorry to argue with your theory, but there was a movement to modernize the licensing structure in Florida well before the mess in So. Fla. became a cause celebre!

There is one prominent name that contributed to the enactment of that antiquated 1894 law tho, Marion Hamer of the Unified Sportsmen of Fla.........that woman pushed and cajoled and was the real point of the spear for change. Truth be told, there was a lot of sentiment existing in the Legislature for the move years prior....ie: Leighton Baker, of Peterson's gunshop fame in Mt. Dora, pushed for a basic change that resulted in a lot of clarification to the 1894 licensing statute and permitted a lot of legitimate use that truly was illegal less a license prior to enactment. A lot of griping about the need for 68 licenses to carry statewide had been publicized widely and added to the law change.........too, both the Florida Police Chief's assn and Florida Sheriff's assn strongly supported the law.

Crediting a bunch of scumbags such as the so called "Cocaine Cowboys" ignores the good work of a lot of honest people that really engineered the law change.

I am no expert by any means, but I had an instructor one time that spent two whole days giving examples of cases where the statistics were used to show cause and effect that were not real. When the whole picture was viewed a different relatonship was discovered.

In this case, I am sure the CCW changes in Florida had a large part in the decrease in murders, but I have to believe there were other factors too.
Did the police departments and Federal anti-drug units launch extensive programs to reduce violent crimes at the same time?

Perhaps the larger drug cartels eliminated all the lesser indenpents dealers so there were less "victums" to be murdered, at least as far as drug related shootings go.

All I am saying is you need to look at all the factors that could have contributed to the decline. It would be great to know and be able to prove the armed citizens were the factor that caused the drop, but you might be misrepresenting the facts.

I have a copy of John Lott's book, but I dont know if he breaks out Florida as a seperate case study or not. The truth be told I never got around to finishing the book.

 

[1776forever]

You saw cocaine cowboys too?

I saw it as well.To live in Miami back then must have been something else.A bank literaly on almost every corner,car dealerships,nightclubs and jewerly stores were booming,everywhere you looked skyscrapers were always being built.During that time period,the whole city of Miami was pretty much being funded by drug money.To have been young and rich in Miami in the 80's must have been an amazing time.

 

[llongshot]

I didn't read the justification for the stats so I don't know if it's been brought up but I remember seeing in the news reports that tourist muggings and that assaults on out of state persons visiting Florida were at an all time high. The media, as usual when it's pro gun, never gave a reason. Later I read somewhere that a concealed carry law had been passed in Florida and the criminals had stopped targeting the locals. This meant that the tourists had to make up the difference in profit margin.

 

[onetuza]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. We should not need a license, permit or any other piece of paper granting us the privilege to carry a firearm. The Constitution is clear. ". . the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

to infringe (third-person singular simple present infringes, present participle infringing, simple past and past participle infringed)

1. (transitive) Break or violate a treaty, a law, a right etc.​

 

[The Fish]

I saw it as well.To live in Miami back then must have been something else.A bank literaly on almost every corner,car dealerships,nightclubs and jewerly stores were booming,everywhere you looked skyscrapers were always being built.During that time period,the whole city of Miami was pretty much being funded by drug money.To have been young and rich in Miami in the 80's must have been an amazing time.

And all the guys got to wear those colorful pastel suits just like Crockett& Tubbs.:congrats::boese51::aargh4:

 

[GoldenSaber]

Blah, blah, blah, blah. We should not need a license, permit or any other piece of paper granting us the privilege to carry a firearm. The Constitution is clear. ". . the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

to infringe (third-person singular simple present infringes, present participle infringing, simple past and past participle infringed)

1. (transitive) Break or violate a treaty, a law, a right etc.​

I agree 100% but unfortunately that isn't the reality anymore with the socialist mentality that permeates most of Washington today. A CW or OC permit is certainly better than the alternative which would be no guns for anyone but the crooks. I'll take what I can get...

 

[GoldenSaber]

Crediting a bunch of scumbags such as the so called "Cocaine Cowboys" ignores the good work of a lot of honest people that really engineered the law change.

Who's crediting the scumbags? The OP was simply stating a fact that drug wars of the 1980's were directly related to the modern CWP in Florida. Ms. Hammer may have been a part of the process, but the legislation she helped get in place passed in 1987 exactly during the time of the drug wars. Ignoring the fact that they go hand in hand isn't glorifying anything nor discrediting the work of people like her. My gut (considering the tendency of government) is that had the crimes not been occuring that very likely the right to carry would have been swept aside again as it had been so many times before.