Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
303 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Have you ever thought about how many times you would pull the trigger if you had to stop an eminent threat? Would you stop at one and see if the BG were still coming, would you double tap and then see if he were still coming, or would you go ahead and execute the mozambique technique and be done with it? I have heard of some people who didn't stop firing until the slide stopped moving. How prepared are you for the stress of actually pulling the trigger?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,213 Posts
I've already decided this one.

Twice, preferably in a controlled pair. Then worry about it. If they're still up and the head presents itself as a target, time for the last third of the failure drill.

This is assuming a simplistic single adversary scenario.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
personaly i will fire untill " he " dropps below my sights ( then i will assess) and quits doing what caused me to shoot at him in the first place
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
262 Posts
HollowpointHank said:
Have you ever thought about how many times you would pull the trigger if you had to stop an eminent threat? Would you stop at one and see if the BG were still coming, would you double tap and then see if he were still coming, or would you go ahead and execute the mozambique technique and be done with it? I have heard of some people who didn't stop firing until the slide stopped moving. How prepared are you for the stress of actually pulling the trigger?

Well, you fire until there is no longer a threat of serious bodily injury or death to yourself or others. Unless someone takes a solid hit to the pumpkin that shuts down there nuro system they can function and do a hell of a lot of damage before they bleed out. I have an old pic floating around in my collection that is a dramatic demonstration of a persons with the will to keep on going. The perp in question took 39 hits with everything from 38 to 9 and even 12 gauge buck before he just bleed out and stoped. We are taught to double-tap and then cover low ready if further action is required. In a CCW scenario you would most likely have the ability to seek cover and concealment thus breaking contact ASAP where as I am required to basically go get the sucker even if he is still thumping along.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
25,533 Posts
Think Manwell has the answer, and by the way, welcome to him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
euclid, not to belabor a point but in a gunfight insanity is give them a chance to react i was not trained that way and i would not train anyone that way , ( god i hate this next word ) tacticaly you respond to agression with overwhelming force once they submit you cease your agression ( be that shooting them or smacking them with a broomstick ) like i stated i shoot till they drop below my sight plane , then i assess if they are a threat or not , till then all bets are off edited by me ... i guess i really should do an intro post with my background , but thumbnail is that i was a badge packer for 10.5 yrs , worked everything from patrol to admin , and was nra certed firearms instructor , that being said i can be ( and the wife assures me i often am ) as wrong as anyone , i guess all i can do is post from my experiance and training , sometims with a cynical and as a whole misunderstood sense of humor LOL anyway any answer here that involves " i walk away " is a right answer
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
612 Posts
single BG or many?

If there is only one threat, I would fire until there is no threat. But if there is more than one, the drill is 2per until all engaged then back again for followups.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
sorting multiple threats is a whole nother thread imho LOL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
216 Posts
Get some good training and stick with that technique.

I was trained aimed pair COM then cranio-ocular if necessary for single goblin.

1 COM for each multiple in order of threat, then cranio ocular as needed.

May not be perfect but that how I was trained, and train.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,004 Posts
double tap,assess , repeat as needed.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
25,483 Posts
I do not subscribe to any formula.

I think in extremis our inner computer will be running clocked - we will be hyped and concentrating on making a threat cease. That will probably mean we will be processing data very fast - certainly after a couple or three shots, in a millisecond or two, we will be if lucky deciding whether to keep shooting - dependent on the thread level still remaining.

Any doubt - any doubt at all - then probably we carry on. It almost has to be thus - if a deadly threat faces us - we are SOL if we shoot one/assess/shoot another/assess ---- possibility of incoming or actual incoming will IMO focus our attention greatly - as long tho as we do not get total tunnel vision - always a risk, as there could be other goblins with us in their sights.

Most of us will never know (hopefully) but otherwise we must train to be as quickly effective as possible - for as long as it may take (number of shots it may take).
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,558 Posts
Having just begun this journey (CCW Applicant), I find all of the above very thought provoking. Under Texas law, we were taught that we "should" cease shooting when the BG "stops". In other words, "I shot, he stopped", I stopped". Having said that, when training, I shoot five rounds as quickly as I can accurately (trying to increase my accurate rate of fire). My thinking is thus evolving somewhat as "unless Round 1 "stops" him COLD, there are four more headed his way pronto".

How surprise, shock, fear, adrenalin, and heart rate might affect that, I have no clue. That's why my wife and I plan on continuing to train the rest of our lives, and as it advances, will include advanced training that moves past simple range time.

So, feel free to make suggestions on improving on our skill base - we're always learning.

Also, I didn't mean to be sexist in the above and make out BG's to be only men, I just didn't want to spend my time typing "he/she" all the way ....:haha:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
481 Posts
In this thread:

http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58856#post58856

I described a shooting I was involved in. Note that I fired twice at the gunman, one round missed him and one round hit him dead center and exploded inside his heart.

No one knows which round stopped him, first or second, but another officer might not be alive today if I had only fired once and that was the one that missed.

As a shooter with vast experience in both the military and law enforcement, I always expected that if I shot at something, I would hit it..... all my training reinforced that thought. But real life situations have a dimension all their own that no training range can duplicate; I had just been shot at, bailed out of the house and saw the subject getting ready to shoot again. I am sure that adrenalin played a major role in the fact that one round did not hit him.

I am a firm believer in training and range work that is as close to 'real life' as it can be. I fire multiple round shot groups because I train that way. I also shoot the exact same ammo on the range that I carry with daily.... Speer Gold Dots. Sure it's more expensive, but because I shoot multiple round shot groups, I know exactly what the recoil of my weapon is like and how that effects the handling between one, two and even three rounds fired in very fast succession.

To illustrate this point: the next time you go to the range, mix your ammo as you load your magazine or revolver. By mix, I mean if you use a different range ammo just because it is cheaper, put both that and your carry load in without looking specifically to see which kind of round went in what order. Then squeeze off multiple round groups in quick order. Your target will tell the story. If you see a round or two way out of place, it will most likely be your better carry ammo because you were not as 'used to it' as you are the cheaper practice ammo.

Just something to think about, and I fully realize that other opinions may differ, as opinions are often based on personal experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,134 Posts
Dave T has some points , personaly ( mostly due to his disjointed post i feel he has " seen the elephant " if you have its hard to do a summation of what happened , one thing stands out to me personaly is the theme if i am/was a great shot , and under stress i dont know where i shot ( paraphrased ) folks , thats reality you cannot train under the stress of a gunfight , you can stress yourself in training and that will help you survive if you eaver have the RL need , hell i cant articulate any better than him , but thats life i guess
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Until the gun is empty. Do not reload. When I was foolish enough to live in MA, the guy who gave my course for my handgun permit told us that. It made sense. He said in court, it'll show a high amount of stress (panic) to just keep pulling the trigger until the gun is empty and may help in a self defense situation. If you reload, it may show premeditation to some extent. Just my .02
 

·
1943 - 2009
Joined
·
10,368 Posts
Bud White said:
Fire untill the threat stops .. be it 1-40 some rounds
Bud has the answer to the 64 thousand dollar question. I'm with him.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Top