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Discussion Starter #4
Bud White said:
everything was fine and good till he goes up and shoots the one guy in the head that would get ya introuble
:above3:
 

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Bud White said:
everything was fine and good till he goes up and shoots the one guy in the head that would get ya introuble
Awww shucks, he was just trying to save the State some money. :silly:
 

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LOL, I doubt he was worrying about keeping out of trouble, being a hitman is not the career to avoid trouble. But that is my favorite scene in the movie. :smile:
 

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Yep - that is a most effective piece of movie - and by all accounts Cruise did a lot of tac' training to get up to speed.

I posted a while back a rather large GIF file which shows just this bit - small physically but as it loops you can just watch and watch :smile: Here it is again .....


 

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Thanks, Chris, I swiped it :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #9
P, you're the man lol. I was hoping there was a gif of that somewhere
 

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First two shots, to BG one - seem to be strong hand in retension/low ready - pure point shooting.

Then extended arms and probably two hand hold for second BG - who gets the last of the Mozambiue in fact before he has hit the deck.

Pretty decisive!!
 

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You know, I've had this movie for almost 2 months now and it's still sitting in the bag from Blockbuster in front of the TV. I cannot believe that I haven't seen it yet.

It is most certainly a good scene. The draw and speed rock two rounds are classically perfect.
 

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Actually, this is a very good demonstration of...

...getting inside one's opponant's OODA loop. If Cruise's attacker was as aware and ready as Cruise was, Cruise would be dead.

Step through the video and you will see that Cruise uses his left hand to knock his attacker's gun hand off line as he goes for his own gun. However Cruise didn't retain control of the attacker's gun hand and the attacker "lasered" Curise while Cruise's gun was still in the holster. Had the attacker been expecting the move instead of seeing Cruise as a soft victim, Cruise would be dead.
 

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Great clip, and good movie. IIRC, Cruise trained with Andy MacNab (ex-SAS) for the combatives and gun-handling scenes.
grnzbra said:
...getting inside one's opponant's OODA loop. If Cruise's attacker was as aware and ready as Cruise was, Cruise would be dead.

Step through the video and you will see that Cruise uses his left hand to knock his attacker's gun hand off line as he goes for his own gun. However Cruise didn't retain control of the attacker's gun hand and the attacker "lasered" Curise while Cruise's gun was still in the holster. Had the attacker been expecting the move instead of seeing Cruise as a soft victim, Cruise would be dead.
True, but it seems to me that the same thing could be said about any gun disarm. If the attacker knows what he's doing, you're not going to get the opportunity. It's because they are not immediately willing to shoot and are trying to intimidate you that you even have a chance to go for a disarm.
 

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Watch the 2nd BG dance around as he tried to get his weapon out of the front of his pants.

I don't carry there, 5:00 OWB right now, but I'd like to think I could have gotten my weapon into action faster than that even if I did. THe only thing that saved Cruise is that the BG's weapon got caught up or something.

Since the 1st BGs weapon is knocked out of line one round into him, followed by two into the 2nd, and back to put another in the 1st if he was still on his feet might have been better IRL. Much better if Cruise had retained ontrol of the 1st BG's weapon, too.

1st BG's "pimp grip" is classic from what I've seen off of stop-and-rob security video.
 

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Is there a way I can save the video (not the link, the actual video) to my computer?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
ArmyCop
Right slick and hit "save targtet as" to save below

Click Here
 

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Alot of force on force training involves the exact movements made by Cruise in this clip.

You can easily practice this by setting up 2 targets about 2 yards apart and use a weak hand block to the top of the first target. This is actually a good senario to practice since it is a real possibility it could go down this exact way. I also noticed that the first BG had made the error of holding his weapon sideways like the gangbangers think is cool. It actually can work in your favor if you can strike his arm as he can't recover to be on target if he doesn't get a shot off before you strike his arm.
 

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kenpotex said:
True, but it seems to me that the same thing could be said about any gun disarm. If the attacker knows what he's doing, you're not going to get the opportunity.
Not necessarily. Had the attacker not been doin a "deer in the headlights" routine in response to Cruise's attack, he would have pulled the trigger as soon as he was back on target. If I were lucky enought to have my attacker make a mistake that gave me such an easy disarm, I don't think I would have bet my life on him making a second one (especially if I were someone like Cruise's character - a very accomplished professional killer). Had Cruise retained control of the gun arm, BG1 wouldn't have been able to get the gun back on him before he got his gun out. Also, he could have stepped toward BG1's right in order to get BG1 between him and BG2 and, when he did start shooting, he wouldn't have had to turn almost 90 degrees to get a shot on BG2. (But I don't think that would have been as dramatic. It might have been perceived by the audience as a "Use the Force, Luke" situation, rather than a very proficient killer.)

Cruise couldn't have gone for a complete disarm, because he had to deal with BG2. He couldn't be sure of using BG1's gun because he wouldn't have had a firing grip on it. He would have had to readjust his grip and by that time BG2 could have been on top of him (along with BG1) or BG2 could have had his gun out while BG1 was still on top of him (and he would have had to relinquish control of BG1's arm in order to readjust the grip)

As for the second BG, he just stood there trying to get his gun (probably had a Smart Carry holster). His choice of actions would have been to either take off and hope that Cruise would let him go because the attack was no longer on and Cruise got his case back, or immediately rush in and tackle cruise while he was dealing with BG1.

I've often thought that the only reason Bernie Goetz was successful in his self defense action is because his four attackers had no plan for dealing with someone with a gun (Why should they; it was NYC?). Had they planned to all rush in the instant they saw a gun, two of them, at most, would have been shot and the other two could have taken Goetz apart like pulling the wings and legs of a fly.
 

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I know it is just a movie......
The BG's were in a clear disadvantage, they just did not knew it. The Combat Triad (some call it the Trinity Principles) consists of three elements: Mindset, Marksmanship, and Gun Handling. The Bad Guy's mindset at that time was not to shoot TC but to rob him. TC was solely focused on popping the BG's. The BG's were expecting a meek victim that was suppossed to give up, be peaceful and beg for mercy but instead they found a predator on the attack. That basically overloaded the BG's brain with a new set of information that did not have time to digest and act upon until it was too late. TC's Marksmanship and Gun Handling were correct and thus he came out the winner against to BG's
Action will always beat reaction. That is why we talk about and try to be AWARE of our surroundings to lessen the chance of being caught by surprise.
 
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