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This happened to me at the time I had no weapon but now I have a ccp and will start carrying pepper spray. I am driving in the wally mart parking lot. I see a lady smack another lady in the head with her had and just sits there and takes it the lady hits her again. At that point I get out of my car and tell the lady that if she continues I would call he cops. About that point I catch this guy out of the corner of my Starts to come at me from my left side I turn to face him he his yelling and screaming at me saying he is going to kick my butt to mind my own business. he stops maybe a foot from me I saw that he didn't have a weapon in his hands. I didn't cold cock the guy when he came up to me cause my daughter was there and she was scared. this guy was smaller then and didn't feel he was that much of a treat. I never let this guy out of my site but he sure was trying to push my buttons calling me a redneck white boy but when I asked him why he had to get all racial on me in a calm voice my daughter just laughed out loud and it seemed to get this guy all confused and speechless not that it matters I am hispanic but when I go to the airport I get treated like I am al qaeda lol. Nothing happened my daughter call the cops as soon as I got out of the car so they showed up before i hit him into next week I am 5 11 270 lbs he must of been 5 4 110 lbs. The more I think about it I think I should of knocked him out but now I carry pepper spray might be funny watching him cry. All I could her was my daughter screaming and I didn't want her to spaz her more then she was. I have never hesitated like this before back in the day I would of just punched him walked away but I kept my cool. I know every situation is different. Just wondering what some of you what have done
 

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You had no weapon, so you did just fine. When carrying, it's a different world.

Without a weapon, I would have probably done what you did.

How would I have handled it if I were carrying? I would have called 911. You have to remember that your carry permit is for self-defense and can also be used in the defense of others. BUT.... before you inject yourself into a situation, it needs to be clear.

In this case, you had no idea who the players were. You saw one woman hitting another one. That's all you really knew about the situation.

So be mega-alert and watch your "P's" and "Q's" when armed.
 

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This happened to me at the time I had no weapon but now I have a ccp and will start carrying pepper spray. I am driving in the wally mart parking lot. I see a lady smack another lady in the head with her had and just sits there and takes it the lady hits her again. At that point I get out of my car and tell the lady that if she continues I would call he cops. About that point I catch this guy out of the corner of my Starts to come at me from my left side I turn to face him he his yelling and screaming at me saying he is going to kick my butt to mind my own business. he stops maybe a foot from me I saw that he didn't have a weapon in his hands. I didn't cold cock the guy when he came up to me cause my daughter was there and she was scared. this guy was smaller then and didn't feel he was that much of a treat. I never let this guy out of my site but he sure was trying to push my buttons calling me a redneck white boy but when I asked him why he had to get all racial on me in a calm voice my daughter just laughed out loud and it seemed to get this guy all confused and speechless not that it matters I am hispanic but when I go to the airport I get treated like I am al qaeda lol. Nothing happened my daughter call the cops as soon as I got out of the car so they showed up before i hit him into next week I am 5 11 270 lbs he must of been 5 4 110 lbs. The more I think about it I think I should of knocked him out but now I carry pepper spray might be funny watching him cry. All I could her was my daughter screaming and I didn't want her to spaz her more then she was. I have never hesitated like this before back in the day I would of just punched him walked away but I kept my cool. I know every situation is different. Just wondering what some of you what have done
You kept your cool, so right off the bat, I say you did just fine. I don't know that you could do things much different unless the guy were to actually assault you, or in some other way become a greater threat to your safety. Had you maced him, or anything else, you would probably have been the one getting the ride and I doubt anything would have happened to him. So what happened to the two women who were fighting?

On a side note, it's this sort of incident that has me thinking about carrying pepper spray again. Having a non-lethal alternative, especially if you do have a firearm on you, is probably always a good idea.
 

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+1 on carrying a non-lethal alternative. Down here in NC, the courts seem to like pepper spray just fine, assuming you are justified in using it.

If the loudmouthed guy who confronted you got right up in our face and escalated the threats, or started poking or pushing you, the pepper spray and a hasty retreat would have been advisable and legally defensible.

However, in this situation, you had no cause whatsoever to hit the guy or use any self-defense tools other than your brain, mouth, cell phone, and walking shoes. So, you did just fine, IMHO.

But, since you asked what I would have done, I wouldn't have gotten involved other than to call the cops when I saw the woman assault the other woman. ESPECIALLY if I had my daughter in the car.

I would have reported what I saw to the 911 dispatcher as I left the scene. Why would I want my daughter (or myself) to potentially be downrange when the assailant decides to pull a J-frame .357 and start shooting at the other woman?

I avoid potentially dangerous situations at all costs. We CCH holders are not LEOs. We, as good citizens, can assist law enforcement by observing and reporting; but, whenever possible, our responsibilities should end there for our own safety as well as the safety of those in our immediate vicinity.

FWIW, this is what I teach my CCH students.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
well when he came at me he was lifting his arms and hands like he was going to hit me he continued to raise his hands and arms I think I would of been justified to spray him. I did feel like he was treating to hit me the other reason I didn't hit him was of his size I didn't think he could knock me down or out I had witness showing he came at me and I am sure it was all on the walymart vid but I don't think I would of drawn weapon unless I saw a weapon. Oh this guy was the son of the women I told to stop I understand I need to know the situation before butting in but the other lady was just sitting there not even trying to defend herself just ask her to stop I was happy letting the cops deal with it. well they were told to never come back by the manager and told the cops to tell them and gave them a letter stating they were not welcomed back
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Guess you are right dred should of just called the cops but in my thinking I guess I thought me asking her to stop she would of just stopped or said call the cops then I would of. Wasn't expecting her son to charge me from the side but I guess my days from growing up in the hood 20 yrs of military service I got use to watching my surroundings I think he would of hit me if I didn't see him. Well after that I see how fast and unexpected things can happen next time I will just call the cops and sit there to be a witness just burns me up to people act like donkeys Side note not that it matters I guess I didnt aproch the lady she was a good 30 40 feet away from me never curesed at her our yelled all I said was mam I will call the cops if you keep hitting her. but I have been told that I have a loud voice and sounds like I am yelling guess thats from pushing trops lol
 

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Call the cops and report what you saw.

Because the victim made her own choice to not defend herself nor remove herself does not obligate you to be Captain America. Whether or not you have a concealed carry permit.
Your CCP is specific and relative to you, it is not a license that empowers you with police nor low and morality enforcement powers.

No gun nor pepper spray required.

- Janq
 

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Don't sweat it.

Guess you are right dred should of just called the cops but in my thinking I guess I thought me asking her to stop she would of just stopped or said call the cops then I would of. Wasn't expecting her son to charge me from the side but I guess my days from growing up in the hood 20 yrs of military service I got use to watching my surroundings I think he would of hit me if I didn't see him. Well after that I see how fast and unexpected things can happen next time I will just call the cops and sit there to be a witness just burns me up to people act like donkeys Side note not that it matters I guess I didnt aproch the lady she was a good 30 40 feet away from me never curesed at her our yelled all I said was mam I will call the cops if you keep hitting her. but I have been told that I have a loud voice and sounds like I am yelling guess thats from pushing trops lol
Hey, we all live and learn, bro. :smile:

Like I said, you did just fine, and you're now better prepared the next time something like this happens.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I realize that now since I have been cc don't plan on making that mistake again. Was just asking what would you do if you got in that situation I realize don't get into it in the first place but it happens. After that day I have evaluated lots of scenarios that could happen. Hell its hard enough to take care of yourself and your own next time I just call it in and make a statement for the cops if they need it.
 

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Exactly.

You're starting to sound a little bit like myself. My personal motto on this is: "I've got love enough for everyone, but I've only got blood enough for me and mine."
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Never heard that going to have to use it now. I use to have the mentality what if that was my kid or wife that was happening to I would want someone to help. But If you get hurt or dead you are no good to your family. So I will just call a cop and go to court if need be to testify to what I saw. Sometimes it seems like more needs to be done but I am no leo not my job to stop it I can sleep at night if all I do is call it in.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Oh but I think if I saw a nude man chasing a woman with an erection and a knife I might have to shoot him
 

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a woman with an erection and a knife? I would probably shoot her, maybe the guy could get his erection reattached!

:gah:
 

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Bwahahahahaha!!! PR beat me to the punchline. Dang! Those KC boys are quick on the draw!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
LOL while know a days you never know lol. Guess I butcherd dirty Harry's line
 

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Dread Pirate gave some excellent advice. I'll bet that you teach a great class.
 

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Ya did good by stopping and tellin the lady the cops are on the way.

For me, an advertised hostile encounter is not gonna work out well for the intruder. Depending on how convincing the wacko is, when he crosses my NO Zone of about ten feet, he's now in danger of being attacked himself. He's already made the threat on his way up, and for me, he's given the green light and provoked the encounter.
 

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Never heard that going to have to use it now. I use to have the mentality what if that was my kid or wife that was happening to I would want someone to help. But If you get hurt or dead you are no good to your family. So I will just call a cop and go to court if need be to testify to what I saw. Sometimes it seems like more needs to be done but I am no leo not my job to stop it I can sleep at night if all I do is call it in.
Yep.

Every play is conditional, not absolute.
As in a case like this a slap upside the head is not lethal force. It's mean and uncalled for, but nobody is going to die from as much.

It's simple assault at best.

You have to pick and choose your battles. And not because I or others say so.
Your first priority is your family. After that Joe and Jane Blow-Citizen fall far behind.

Approaching the woman with your daughter in tow right there was an error.
Normal sane and rational thinking people do not strike people upside the head. That should have been your first clue to hey this lady, the victimizer, might not be fully rational minded never mind sane.
So with that your thought should have been toward guaranteeing safety of your child _first_ as rather than bringing her along with you to engage this irrational acting person in conversation to make an attempted behavior correction.
For all you knew she may have shot you down where you stood. And this has happened. Do not make the mistake to assume that gender and size will protect you from harm.
Females and even small females will just as soon cut or shoot you as anyone else, and you being male and what ever height/weight/physicality means little if anything. Serious business.

Then what, you get cut or shot as by this woman and/or the third party who confronted you upon confronting the woman.
All as in front of your daughter and with you cut or shot as on the spot, now who looks out for your daughter and what is she to do...next?

She gets cut and shot too (!), or taken. That's what. And do not for a minute believe that irrational people have any sort of morality to the degree that they would not harm a child. Your child. The child of the to their own mind 'jerk' who a second prior they cut as in 'defense' of them self as he had tried to front or challenge them and their own will/authority.
That is how these things do and with regularity play out. That is how these people who act as you described think, act, and rationalize thing during and after they act...As largely out of untempered emotion.

I fully understand the desire to come to folks rescue but also one must equally understand the reality of life and living amongst the not always rational nor sane world.
Know what your prioritys are and attend to them primarily. Beyond that make your moves wisely.

It's chess not checkers and there are no take backs or do overs.

- Janq is not a cop nor Captain America
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Well janq lets just say I made my bed laid in it now I have learned from it. It wont happen again. Ever since I went to my cc class and reading on forums like this I have learned to rethink my position on many things. I have learned to let the guy who calls me a sissy as I walk away because I know that I just saved his life by walking away.
 
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