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Imagine the US with zero guns laws. Absolutely none. Free-for-all, anyone can buy, manufacture, shoot, brandish - anything (but self defense and homicide laws are still intact of course). Would you accept this as the true interpretation of the second amendment? Or would we need something else?

I don't mean this as a bait question to stir up trouble, I am just considering what this would be like. Better? Worse?

What do you think?


Edit: The title is supposed to be "food for thought:".
 

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You mean like switzerland? Everybody has a Machinegun in their house? I'm game....Look at their crime rate.


The problem is crime rate will not stay the same... Most likely the crime rate would drop drastically. Crime is so high right now because they do not fear the punishment! If you were going to rob or try to rape somebody that was heavily armed and anybody coming to their add was armed, chances are you would not commiet the crime. Causing crime would fall drastically. Take immigration, if you put up a fence that was a electrified, and robotic gun turrets, chances are immigration would drop, because the people fear the penatly. Right now the penatly for illegally crossing the border, is a hotmeal, a slap on the wrist and deportation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You mean like switzerland? Everybody has a Machinegun in their house? I'm game....Look at their crime rate.
Well Switzerland is a bit different. They don't have a standing army, rather they opt to have their people as their militia. So much of the population is actually mandated to own a gun as well as train with it.

At the same time to buy a gun as a private citizen you still have to acquire a purchase permit from the government (very similar to many state's here). So they do have gun laws enacted, but they also have a standing people's militia. Very interesting to see how it works for them.
 

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You mean like switzerland? Everybody has a Machinegun in their house? I'm game....Look at their crime rate.


The problem is crime rate will not stay the same... Most likely the crime rate would drop drastically. Crime is so high right now because they do not fear the punishment! If you had to rob or try to rape somebody that was heavily armed and anybody coming to their add was armed, crime would fall drastically. Take immigration, if you put up a fence that was a electrified, and robotic gun turrets, chances are immigration would drop, because the people fear the penatly. Right now the penatly for illegally crossing the border, is a hotmeal, a slap on the wrist and deportation.
You mean like this Switzerland that has a ton of gun laws? Or is there another one that you are privey to:
Gun politics in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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I am okay with felons having their firearms rights restricted. I don't even really have much of an issue with the current NICS system for new purchases. Concealed carry permitting also doesn't really bother me much as long as it's "shall issue" and has a simple and straightforward application process. So I guess I'm not generally in favor of the free-for-all.

Anything beyond what's listed above (things like magazine limits, purchase quantity limits, banning certain firearms, waiting periods, permits to own, registration, etc), I am against.

IF we were going to try something like the free-for-all, I would want to see VERY SEVERE MANDATORY PENALTIES for anyone convicted of a firearms related crimes. In fact, that is what I would like to see now. I would like to see some REAL prosecution of some of the offenses for laws already on the books. THAT would have a real result on gun crime, I think.

I also think that you may not have wanted to choose the term "brandish" in your example. That implies the deliberate presentation of a firearm with intent to threaten or coerce. I don't have a problem with that being off limits either.

So, to sum up, I am not strongly averse to some regulation, but I would really like to see the focus be on those who have ALREADY PROVEN ill intent.

LEAVE THE REST OF US NORMAL PEOPLE ALONE.
 

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Imagine the US with zero guns laws. Absolutely none. Free-for-all, anyone can buy, manufacture, shoot, brandish - anything (but self defense and homicide laws are still intact of course). Would you accept this as the true interpretation of the second amendment? Or would we need something else?

I don't mean this as a bait question to stir up trouble, I am just considering what this would be like. Better? Worse?

What do you think?


Edit: The title is supposed to be "food for thought:".
Good question. With mexico we see that strict gun control does not work. The Cartel aka the BGs now rule that country. For what ever reason they do. If there were no laws IMO crime would go up for a time, until police and the LAW abiding took control again. You see, people that are law abiding will continue to be so and criminals, well they will continue as well. We do not have to look that far back in history for a free for all in gun laws. We can see how much of an impact on crime the gun control laws have had which we all know is little to none.

To answer your question. Yes I would like to see a Free for all as you put it....
 

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Well Switzerland is a bit different. They don't have a standing army, rather they opt to have their people as their militia. So much of the population is actually mandated to own a gun as well as train with it.

At the same time to buy a gun as a private citizen you still have to acquire a purchase permit from the government (very similar to many state's here). So they do have gun laws enacted, but they also have a standing people's militia. Very interesting to see how it works for them.
Not in that sense, but giving law abiding citizens back the true meaning of the constitution yes. I think civilians should have access to machine guns, silencers, SBRS, / those types of arms etc..... with no regulation, people should be able to carry a gun without having to obtain a governement issued permit. Having to do so IMHO is an infringment.
 

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Imagine the US with zero guns laws. Absolutely none. Free-for-all, anyone can buy, manufacture, shoot, brandish - anything (but self defense and homicide laws are still intact of course). Would you accept this as the true interpretation of the second amendment?
You mean the Second Amendment with the term SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED?

Yeah, that works for me. The problem is that we have too many idiots that don't understand SHALL NOT running this operation.



Or would we need something else?
If we could all read and understand the English language, nothing else would be needed. Part of the problem is that too many people are will to compromise their rights when they should hold fast.
 

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If you were going to rob or try to rape somebody that was heavily armed and anybody coming to their add was armed, chances are you would not commiet the crime.
OK, before being accused of being an anti......again LOL (I advocate zero guns laws, a much more pro A stance than those that advocate mandatory training and CC permits and background checks on this forum) So beat that!

Somebody agian try to tell me how less stringent gun laws will reduce crime because the BG's will fear everyone thinking they have a gun. And please, no more Houston vs Chicago analogies. There is more to that than gun laws, seems like many of the deaths are done by BG's killing BG's.

Nearest i can figure, almost everywhere in the US you can get a CC to protect yourself (it really is not that hard) and own a gun for SD in your house. How about this for reasoning: A LOT OF FOLKS DON'T LIKE GUNS AND WILL NOT OWN THEM! Sorry for the shouting.

Are there times folks have been killed in a no gun zone..yes. I am sure there is a study out there but how many of those folks would have had a gun if allowed? Not as many as you think depending on where you live. You can have zero gun laws in some places and most of the people will not own a gun. Or if they do it will be in a place that can not be used in time because of the "it can't happen to me mentality".

It is a mentality of folks not carrying in this country that is the problem. Look at TX where you can CC....do the majority of citizens have a CHL? And out of the ones that do, how many do you really think carry all the time. I just don't buy the argument in its totality as if it is a magic talisman that once rid of will ensure peace and tranquility.

BG's will always be out there.
 

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I would want to see VERY SEVERE MANDATORY PENALTIES for anyone convicted of a firearms related crimes.
Agreed. Punish the criminal for the crime he committed. Novel concept, I know.

Revolving door prison system needs fixing in general.
 

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Sorry, forgot this part:
Out of every person that you know that does not own a gun.....how many do not own one because of existing gun laws?
 

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OK, before being accused of being an anti......again LOL (I advocate zero guns laws, a much more pro A stance than those that advocate mandatory training and CC permits and background checks on this forum) So beat that!

Somebody agian try to tell me how less stringent gun laws will reduce crime because the BG's will fear everyone thinking they have a gun. And please, no more Houston vs Chicago analogies. There is more to that than gun laws, seems like many of the deaths are done by BG's killing BG's.

Nearest i can figure, almost everywhere in the US you can get a CC to protect yourself (it really is not that hard) and own a gun for SD in your house. How about this for reasoning: A LOT OF FOLKS DON'T LIKE GUNS AND WILL NOT OWN THEM! Sorry for the shouting.

Are there times folks have been killed in a no gun zone..yes. I am sure there is a study out there but how many of those folks would have had a gun if allowed? Not as many as you think depending on where you live. You can have zero gun laws in some places and most of the people will not own a gun. Or if they do it will be in a place that can not be used in time because of the "it can't happen to me mentality".

It is a mentality of folks not carrying in this country that is the problem. Look at TX where you can CC....do the majority of citizens have a CHL? And out of the ones that do, how many do you really think carry all the time. I just don't buy the argument in its totality as if it is a magic talisman that once rid of will ensure peace and tranquility.

BG's will always be out there.
I agree with somewhat of your saying. Ever since Kaine and Able and the first man formed a stick into a pointy object there will always be crime per say....however, laxing the gun laws WILL reduce crime expecially when giving the power back to the people! Gun laws the last 10 years, (minus the last few months) have been getting more lax, crime has dropped. Everystate that has adopted a concealed carry law has shown a decrease in violent crime. Granted I don't think that there is one fix solution. I think reforming back to the true meaning of the constitution will change things; however, you to drop the crime rate even further you must change other things. Such as our legal system. Fix the rotating door problem, and the repeat offender. IF you murder somebody, you should recieve either live in prison (i.e. a box, with no cable TV, loose your ability to file stupid lawsuits or recieve the death penalty, or maybe a pink jumper living in the desert in military style tents will do.) oo and no more sitting on death row for 20 years. The problem is anti gun laws protect criminals not the law abididng. When I say protect I mean they have no fear of an armed resistor. Therefore they are much more willing to commit the crime.

Laws should be made to protect the law abiding not protect criminals.
 

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Sorry my hypothetical died last week. Still mourning it's loss.:17:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry my hypothetical died last week. Still mourning it's loss.:17:
Did your firearm go off by itself and kill it? We really need to fix that problem!
 

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I agree with somewhat of your saying. Ever since Kaine and Able and the first man formed a stick into a pointy object there will always be crime per say....however, laxing the gun laws WILL reduce crime expecially when giving the power back to the people! Gun laws the last 10 years, (minus the last few months) have been getting more lax, crime has dropped. Everystate that has adopted a concealed carry law has shown a decrease in violent crime. Granted I don't think that there is one fix solution. I think reforming back to the true meaning of the constitution will change things; however, you to drop the crime rate even further you must change other things. Such as our legal system. Fix the rotating door problem, and the repeat offender. IF you murder somebody, you should recieve either live in prison (i.e. a box, with no cable TV, loose your ability to file stupid lawsuits or recieve the death penalty, or maybe a pink jumper living in the desert in military style tents will do.) oo and no more sitting on death row for 20 years. The problem is anti gun laws protect criminals not the law abididng. When I say protect I mean they have no fear of an armed resistor. Therefore they are much more willing to commit the crime.

Laws should be made to protect the law abiding not protect criminals.
In Bold: Really? I looked up some stats that will say violent crime has slowed down since 1991, and started declining in 1993....recognize the year? That was when the Brady Bill was signed. It was enacted in Feb 1994. So...where is the connection between gun laws and crime......?
I will give you my answer and it is taken from Bill Clinton:
"It's the economy, stupid"
 

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I'm not sure if removing all gun laws will affect actual crime rates. Criminals will still prey on those whom they think are the most helpless. People are getting dumber all the time, regardless of whether or not they carry a firearm, and having guns doesn't mean people train with them, so there will always be crime, accidents, and tragedies, with stricter laws or otherwise.

Personally, I'd rather have fewer laws and regulations on firearm ownership. If someone is not fit to have a gun, they are probably not fit to be walking around in public. That's not a gun issue, though.
 
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