First let me start by saying that I am not going to attemt this nor do I condone it, but.... As most of you know a new law has been passed in Florida that allows concealed weapons in National forests and State parks, but it is not effective until Oct. 1 of this year. What if a permit holder was caught in the Forest or State park with a firearm between now and then? The new law says it is ok, so the State has deemed it acceptable to do, so on what grounds could someone be arrested and charged, technically no law has been broken because it has been abolished, it just does not take effect for a few more months? Again just a hypothetical question I was contemplating over my coffee this morning. Maybe I was half asleep, but now I want to know the answer because it has been bugging me all day. Any opinions, precendent, similar cases?
Hypothetical question
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Your screwed , untill effective date of a new law it has no weight . Kansas passed ccw , but effective date of legal is 01-01-07 if i am not mistaken , and i wouldnt care to be caught over there next door with a pistol untill then .
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Yea so when ya go camping pick something small and hide it real well lol ie dont roll up a " Quigly sharps " into your sleeping bag and expect to get away with it LOL
Actually I don't think Florida (or any other state) has much say in a national forest. If the National Forest Service or National Park Service says No Carry then it is No Carry.
You: "But Florida passed a law"
Them: "Well golly that is Florida, this is US Government Property..
get in the car"
Better to call a Forest Service or NPS Ranger before you carry there.
You: "But Florida passed a law"
Them: "Well golly that is Florida, this is US Government Property..
get in the car"
Better to call a Forest Service or NPS Ranger before you carry there.
I live in Colorado.......... As I understand it I can't carry in a national "park." But as far a national forest goes.......... I am good to go.
Anyone out there know (for sure) about the laws regarding having/carrying a firearm in a national forest?
Thanks........
Anyone out there know (for sure) about the laws regarding having/carrying a firearm in a national forest?
Thanks........
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As I understand it the new law only applies to State Parks and forests. They cannot make laws concerning federal lands. I believe they requested a review of the rules with an eye towards changing the rules on federal parks and forests within the state but the feds don't have to change a thing if they don't feel like it.
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Yep, big difference.
National Forests & National Grasslands are administered by the U.S. Forest Service, a part of the U.S Department of Agriculture. As a general rule, firearms are allowed on these lands.
National Parks are administered by the National Park Service, a part of the U.S. Department of the Interior. Only unloaded and securely stored (locked in a case or container) firearms are allowed on NPS lands. This also includes National Monuments and National Historic Sites. I think there might be an exception for Alaska.
Look on the...
Look on the US Forestry service website and you will see that they do allow firearms in the National Forests, but unlike most Federal laws that trump state laws, they allow the states to decide whether or not to allow it and until just recently it was not allowed in Florida except during hunting seasons established by Fish and Game. Starting July 1 permit holders will be allowed by Fish and Game to carry in Wildlife management areas (WMA's) Most of our National Forests here are also WMA's. Starting in Oct. carry by permit holders will be allowed in State parks and National Forests. The Forestry service handles the Forests and the DEP handles the State Parks. If you go to the Florida Senate website and look at the law that just passed dealing with this, you will see that the DEP will have to amend there rules to allow carry in State Parks. Sorry to be so long winded, but I think there are a lot of people that do not know the difference between National Forests and National Parks. I will post the link to the bill that passed when I find it again.
Look on the US Forestry service website and you will see that they do allow firearms in the National Forests, but unlike most Federal laws that trump state laws, they allow the states to decide whether or not to allow it and until just recently it was not allowed in Florida except during hunting seasons established by Fish and Game. Starting July 1 permit holders will be allowed by Fish and Game to carry in Wildlife management areas (WMA's) Most of our National Forests here are also WMA's. Starting in Oct. carry by permit holders will be allowed in State parks and National Forests. The Forestry service handles the Forests and the DEP handles the State Parks. If you go to the Florida Senate website and look at the law that just passed dealing with this, you will see that the DEP will have to amend there rules to allow carry in State Parks. Sorry to be so long winded, but I think there are a lot of people that do not know the difference between National Forests and National Parks. I will post the link to the bill that passed when I find it again.
Here you go
http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&Submenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Billnum=1029&Year=2006
H1029 GENERAL BILL/1ST ENG by Baxley; (CO-SPONSORS) Carroll; Clarke; Hasner; Hays; Kreegel; Stansel; Traviesa (Similar CS/S 1546) National Forests/Firearms; repeals provision which prohibits carrying of firearms in national forests; repeals provision which authorizes granting of special permit for carrying of firearms in said forest; repeals provision which provides penalty for violation of certain provisions; requires DEP to amend correlative rule in Fla. Administrative Code to allow possession of weapons in compliance with all Fla. Statutes, etc. Amends 790.25; repeals 790.11,.12,.14. EFFECTIVE DATE: 10/01/2006.
http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/index.cfm?Mode=Bills&Submenu=1&BI_Mode=ViewBillInfo&Billnum=1029&Year=2006
H1029 GENERAL BILL/1ST ENG by Baxley; (CO-SPONSORS) Carroll; Clarke; Hasner; Hays; Kreegel; Stansel; Traviesa (Similar CS/S 1546) National Forests/Firearms; repeals provision which prohibits carrying of firearms in national forests; repeals provision which authorizes granting of special permit for carrying of firearms in said forest; repeals provision which provides penalty for violation of certain provisions; requires DEP to amend correlative rule in Fla. Administrative Code to allow possession of weapons in compliance with all Fla. Statutes, etc. Amends 790.25; repeals 790.11,.12,.14. EFFECTIVE DATE: 10/01/2006.
Could not find on Forestry website
This is a link to the NRA federal firearms laws dealing with National parks and National Forests.
http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Use and Possession of Firearms in National Parks and Forests
Code of Federal Regulations Title 36 "Parks, Forests, Public Property"
NOTE: The National Parks are administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior. The National Forests are administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Generally, firearms are prohibited in National Parks but permitted in National Forests.
Firearms being transported through a Park must be rendered "inoperable": unloaded, cased, broken down (if possible) and out of sight. The ranger or gate attendant must be notified of the presence of firearms upon entering the Park.
Firearms and hunting are permitted in National Forests in accordance with state law. Firearms are prohibited in any National Forest designated a game refuge or wildlife preserve except where authorized by the Forest Service.Violation of state firearms laws is prohibited in all National Forests.
Regulations concerning firearms in National parks and Forests may be found in Title 36 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
This is a link to the NRA federal firearms laws dealing with National parks and National Forests.
http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#Use and Possession of Firearms in National Parks and Forests
Code of Federal Regulations Title 36 "Parks, Forests, Public Property"
NOTE: The National Parks are administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior. The National Forests are administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Generally, firearms are prohibited in National Parks but permitted in National Forests.
Firearms being transported through a Park must be rendered "inoperable": unloaded, cased, broken down (if possible) and out of sight. The ranger or gate attendant must be notified of the presence of firearms upon entering the Park.
Firearms and hunting are permitted in National Forests in accordance with state law. Firearms are prohibited in any National Forest designated a game refuge or wildlife preserve except where authorized by the Forest Service.Violation of state firearms laws is prohibited in all National Forests.
Regulations concerning firearms in National parks and Forests may be found in Title 36 of the Code of Federal Regulations.
WVCCW' comment
You are right, the Feds CAN do just about what they want, however the new law repeals an antique portion of Florida's firearms law that was likely just an oversight when the ccw reform law passed in the '80's.
That old law required a person to get a seperate license from each county in which the forest was located plus obtain the approval of the Chief Ranger for that forest. Prior to '87 Florida law required a license for EACH county for carrying anywhere in the state.
The Forest service itself doesnt prohibit carriage so the repeal should pose no problem. As it was, even folks who lived on private land within the boundries of Ntl. Forest land were in violation of the law even if they had a state CCW lic. and were just commuting to work and othewise completely legal.
You are right, the Feds CAN do just about what they want, however the new law repeals an antique portion of Florida's firearms law that was likely just an oversight when the ccw reform law passed in the '80's.
That old law required a person to get a seperate license from each county in which the forest was located plus obtain the approval of the Chief Ranger for that forest. Prior to '87 Florida law required a license for EACH county for carrying anywhere in the state.
The Forest service itself doesnt prohibit carriage so the repeal should pose no problem. As it was, even folks who lived on private land within the boundries of Ntl. Forest land were in violation of the law even if they had a state CCW lic. and were just commuting to work and othewise completely legal.
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Just to add to the confusion, National Wildlife Refuges are under the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the weapons policies vary from refuge to refuge, even within the same state, with some barring all weapons and some deferring to state laws regarding carry.
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National Parks have regulations which prohibit any loaded weapon whatsoever. National Forests do not. However, many states have language in their CC laws which prohibit carry in National Forests within the state. As explained above, FLA was one such until recently.
There is one north of here, forget the name, where CC is legal in the part of the National Forest within one state and illegal in the part of the same National Forest which spills over into another state.
The USNPS and the USFS are different organizations. Don't call the USNPS to ask about USFS regulations, or vice versa.
Happily CC within the National Forests in Colorado is legal, which is good because it seems like you can't go anywhere here without passing thru one.
There is one north of here, forget the name, where CC is legal in the part of the National Forest within one state and illegal in the part of the same National Forest which spills over into another state.
The USNPS and the USFS are different organizations. Don't call the USNPS to ask about USFS regulations, or vice versa.
Happily CC within the National Forests in Colorado is legal, which is good because it seems like you can't go anywhere here without passing thru one.
A states laws only apply within the state, naturally. If your permit is recognized by another state, that other state's laws apply while you carry there. For example, IIRC you have to open carry within restaurants in VA. If VA recognizes your out of state permit, you still have to open carry when you go to get a bite to eat.WVCCW said:
Doc said:
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