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I was shooting my Kimber TLE/RL 1911 at an indoor range yesterday. I was doing some research basically for an upcoming feral hog hunt (if it materializes) and was checking POA/POI at 15 yards. I was shooting a 3" ShootNC and doing pretty good I thought, but I noticed the guy in the lane next to me was doing badly either.

In fact he was doing a little better than me. Hmmm....

So I get to talking to him and he has this elegant Feinwerkbau .22 LR pistol. I found this pic on the web and his gun looked just about like this, except I believe he was using a different RDS. He had Ultradot which has adjustable dot size and brightness.

The attached pic is a bit small, but I didn't want to spend a lot of time 'fixing' it up; I think it's enough to get the idea.

One thing lead to another, and before I knew it, he was loading 5 rounds into the mag for me to shoot. Fortunately, he had that RDS dialed in perfectly, and he had been shooting from the bench rest in his lane.

Well, for some reason, I decided to shoot at a clean 3" dot on my target, at 15 yards off hand. The first shot was inside the inch ring on the dot. I wasn't sure where the second shot went, but I kept shooting. The third was also inside the one inch ring and I could tell one of the fourth and fifth shots hit inside the 1" ring.

I reeled the target in and the reason I couldn't tell where the second shot went was because it was so close to the first shot. All five shots were in a group under 1". I was simply amazed. It wasn't just that I had shot so well, but how easy it was. The gun/setup was simply amazing.

I found myself not enthused about shooting my Kimber at 15 yards anymore. Fortunately I ddin't have to - I was out of ammo.

I pondered why the gun was so accurate and easy to shoot - I eventually decided that the RDS, the incredible trigger, and the inherent accuracy of both the gun and ammo was the reasons.

So, I'm thinking, which one of my 1911s could I mount a RDS on and adjust the trigger down to about 3 lbs. I think I'm gonna order a base for my Burris Fastfire III RDS and just mount it in the sight dovetail and see what happens. That way if I don't like it, no harm done.

If I do like it, I'll machine an inset into the slide and mount the sight lower and more permanently. I've had this RDS on several Glocks, but they did very little for speed or accuracy.

However, there is a 'red dot sights' on SD pistols' following that swear by these things. I have an unproven theory though, based on my experience that many of that 'following' couldn't shoot well with iron sights and the RDS was easier for them. Because I shoot a lot and have good eyesight and use my sights regularly, I'm not sure I get much of an advantage in either speed or accuracy.

E.g. I put some Pro Sights on one of my Glock 17s, and the Burris Fastfire on another Glock 17 and I actually shot better and faster with the Pro Sights than the RDS.

But, after my experience yesterday, I saw that some of my groups at 15 yards was due to slight variations in sight pics. Then comparing my irons to the RDS I immediately saw an improvement. Of course there was 'some' (like night and day) difference in the gun and ammo. He was shooting match grade ammo, ironically enough, because that's all he could find.

Now I have to put one of my Bushnell TRS-25 RDS's on my Mark III and see how it does.

Getting to shoot a gun that basically takes the gun's inherent accuracy out of the picture and puts the accuracy on the shooter was eye opening.

No, I'm not going to buy one .
 

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Red dots seemed to improve everyone who added ones accuracy when I shot .22 pistol competition. The biggest down fall to a RDS on a pistol seems to be point of aim/impact varies when shooting different distances.
 

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Tangle, I think we probably use the same indoor range. How is it that the guy next to me is usually shooting a very weathered Taurus, sticking his tongue out and squinting when he shoots? And you get a guy shooting a pistol like THAT. Just not fair. :embarassed: Soon as that Beverly Hills Gun Club membership gets approved im outta here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Tangle, I think we probably use the same indoor range. How is it that the guy next to me is usually shooting a very weathered Taurus, sticking his tongue out and squinting when he shoots? And you get a guy shooting a pistol like THAT. Just not fair. :embarassed: Soon as that Beverly Hills Gun Club membership gets approved im outta here.
LOL! Life can be so unfair sometimes! You just don't pick the right days and lanes :tongue:

That was a special opportunity! :yup:

The 'range' may be the least of our problems. If things don't change, we're not going to have ammo to shoot in anything :ticking:
 

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maybe it's just me,but unless I was rich, I can't see spending $3K on a .22 pistol.
 

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Accuracy is fun and rewarding, and it has its place. Just depends on your goals, and purpose.
 

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I recently mounted a redot sight on a Ruger MK3 pistol that is suppressed. Once it was dialed in, wherever you put that dot is where the bullet goes.

Most peole that have shot it have been amazed that they were so accurate with it. Of course, the trick is to stay at the range that the dot is zeroed for. Any deviation in that range means a shot that is high or low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I recently mounted a redot sight on a Ruger MK3 pistol that is suppressed. Once it was dialed in, wherever you put that dot is where the bullet goes.
That's what I want to do with my MKIII.

...Most people that have shot it have been amazed that they were so accurate with it.
That's encouraging; i doubt the MKIII will be equivalent to the Feinwerkbau, but because the barrel and 'receiver' are essentially one piece, I would expect it to come close.

...Of course, the trick is to stay at the range that the dot is zeroed for. Any deviation in that range means a shot that is high or low.
Yeah, that's true, but with the right scope (I'm thinking 1X), if it it had quick elevation adjustment or BDC indicators, that might help some.
 

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After you run a high-end, dialed-in .22 target pistol (I have a Pardini SP, etc., etc.) you are suddenly presented with a singular, inescapable, humbling conclusion. You can no longer blame inaccuracy on anything except...yourself! :redface:
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
After you run a high-end, dialed-in .22 target pistol (I have a Pardini SP, etc., etc.) you are suddenly presented with a singular, inescapable, humbling conclusion. You can no longer blame inaccuracy on anything except...yourself! :redface:
LOL! Amen to that!!!! I actually told the guy that owned the gun, "That was rather humbling."
 

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It's the trigger. :yup:

Nothing harms accuracy (in an otherwise fine target firearm) more than a lousy overly heavy trigger.

Ahhh...but, Tangle you can afford a vintage "used in excellent condition" S&W Model 41 .22 LR which also has a flawless adjustable trigger and incredible inherent accuracy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
It's the trigger. :yup:

Nothing harms accuracy (in an otherwise fine target firearm) more than a lousy overly heavy trigger.

Ahhh...but, Tangle you can afford a vintage "used in excellent condition" S&W Model 41 .22 LR which also has a flawless adjustable trigger and incredible inherent accuracy.
I can't say for sure that this gun had a trigger - it seemed to me like you put the red dot on the target and it just fired - how does it know??? :tongue:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
CINC House (wife) would kill me if I even mentioned buying a $3,000 .22 pistol with a name I can't pronounce!
LOL! There are some things a wife isn't supposed to know. The problem is, seems like they always find out :blink: .

Wives must have spies everywhere :tongue:
 

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THERE ya' go Tangle. The $3K price tag is mostly the cost of that TTS option (Telepathic Trigger System). Them Germans think of everything. :biggrin2:

And when I mentioned "Pardini" to Mrs. Ghost Tracker, she thought I had found a new Italian restaurant!
 

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Man, I too go to the same indoor range, and have ran into Tangle a few times, but it couldn't be yesterday of course! Actually probably a good thing, after seeing two guys put bullets through the same holes I probably would've been done shooting anyways :embarassed:, lol.

I have no doubt you were wearing a bullseye out with that thing mr tangle.
 

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Now I am going to have to put a red dot on my ruger MKII
 

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Red dots go with .22 target pistols like Rock goes with...Roll. :anim_headbang:
 
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Get a model 41... I can routinely put a 10 round magazine into a sub 1" group at 15 yards with iron sights.... Other than my CZ 452, it is the most accurate gun I own. at 25 yards, the group widens out to 1&1/2 inches. I shoot CCI standard velocity ammo, to take it easy on the springs. The trigger is VERY sensitive.... I almost always have an "oops" I wasn't ready for that one when I shoot the gun again after having not shot it for awhile.
My CZ 452 military trainer will put 5 rounds in a group smaller than a dime with iron sights at 50 yards.... at 25 yards, it's almost just a big hole :) I'll have to try and remember to take pictures of the groups next week when I go shooting again. you can find Model 41's for sale running anywhere from 800-1200 on backpage. Some of the best money I've ever spent on firearms, was my Model 41, and that CZ 452.
 
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