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we cannot ship Norinco firearms to clients in the U.S.
:frown: :frown: :rolleyes:

I'd snag one in a heartbeat - given the chance. Geez .... why should the Canucks get this ''privelage''? :mad:
 

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Hey

What is it with you pinko forum guys wanting to buy Knock~Off Commie Rifles?
Let those Maple Syrup Heads (up there) have their Cheapo Rendition Red Rifle Wannabe. :biggrin:

Look at this ill~fitted Piece Of Hunk~O~Junko cast from recycled "God Only Knows What" metal. And Trust Me those are THE BEST pictures they could take of the best looking one that they have! Pretty bad.
I honestly would not even want one.
 

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On The Plus Side Concerning NORC

Their Commie Carbon Copy Of The Colt 19 Ear Revvin' (Chinese for 1911) is just absolutely awful looking. But they do work and shoot.
Personally....I truly believe that their frames and slides are finish machined metal castings and not entirely machined from steel billets.
Save up & buy American if you can. :rolleyes:
There is a big difference in price but also a big diffence in overall workmanship and quality.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well to me the point of one of these Chinese jobs is to be able to experience a design at a lower cost. The way I look at it something like this really isn't in the same market.

I mean come on who doesn't want to try an M14 at that price?
 

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Just My Opinion

Honestly we're all on the same side of the 2nd Amendment fence and anybody that wants to exercise their American Right to own firearms by buying up Communist China Clone rifles and handguns is A~Ok with me. They just don't float my boat at all. I am not saying that everybody should stop buying them. I'm not saying that at all. But nothing can change the reality of what they are. In my opinion they cranked out mass produced very cheap looking poorly finished Chinese copies of much better weapons.
I sure would rather have one than no firearm at all.
I also sure would not ever buy one if I could afford something better and better looking.
But, like I say...just my humble o'penguin.
 

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Matter of pricknipple I guess! :smile:

I too would love the real deal but cost is a mitigating factor. I would tho relish the chance to enjoy another garand action on a budget - knowing too that I could (and would) have that sucker stripped and ''tweaked'' as a priority - and would make it run well good enough.
 

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I too would not mind having a couple el'cheapo 1911 Norincos to practice some pistolsmithing on without worrying about butchering up some high dollar investments on the lathe. Been looking at the gun shows, and there are very few Norincos to be found.
 

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When I had my Norinco .45 worked on, both 'smiths originally said they were cheap knock offs. Upon completing installation of the sights, they said it was some of the toughest steel they had ever worked on, and the owner bought 25 immediately for custom projects. Great guns. Bill Wilson purchased 400 if I remember correctly to build custom guns on. That says something.

Dan
 

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Euclidean said:
Well to me the point of one of these Chinese jobs is to be able to experience a design at a lower cost.
It would be cheaper, in the long run, for you to buy a used SA 1911 for you to "experience a design at a lower cost" because you will not do that with a cheap POS like a Norinco 1911. To me, they are simply imported Saturday Night Specials. "You get what you pay for" comes to mind.

Euclidean said:
I mean come on who doesn't want to try an M14 at that price?
I wouldn't.
 

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Been looking at the gun shows, and there are very few Norincos to be found.

Reason being is the quality. Yes, they may be rough, but go to 1911forum.com or pistolsmith.com and read what seasoned 1911 smiths have to say about them. Where they are imported from is not the issue when it comes to the quality of the steel. Other than the finish being rough, you will read about quite a few less troubles than most any other mil style 1911 offered recently at half the cost.

I dont like the politics of China any more than any other true American. I dont know quite how to feel about certain Slovakian nations. I know CZ makes a hell of a gun. So do they people assembling 1911 Norincos.

I dont know about the steels used in their long arms. But I do know a freind of mine (same guy mentioned about earlier with the pistols) bought one of the Rinco 870 knock offs. He loved it. And he was a smith for Scattergun Tech before it was purchased by Wilson.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #15
To me it's like this.

Say you need a rifle. You don't have one. You need something though.

You go pick up one of these Norincos. You play around with it, it's okay, and you like it.

What happens next?

You want a better rifle, but you realize that such and such pattern does not appeal to you etc. etc. This is better than sinking thousands into something just to find out there's something about the design you don't like.

You buy a Chinese M14 and play with it for about a year. You don't like it. You sell it off for $200 and lose $150 to research.

You buy a Springfield rifle in the same design. You don't like it. You sell it off at $1300 and lose $500 to research.

Now in a 1911, I'd buy a low end Springfield or the Taurus that's coming out or a used Smith and Wesson if I found one. I don't want a Norinco 1911. It's only the rifles that interest me. I've found I view handguns very much like I do watches: there's a certain level of flair I want. The only cheap pistols I really like are Rossis.

As far as I'm concerned I am the owner of the only decent Chinese firearm on the planet in the form of a Norinco SKS. I was considering a Ruger Mini 30 at one time. This rifle is honestly the Ruger Mini 30 but better and cheaper.

And to be honest owning this rifle has given me a yearning for a Bushmaster or something like that that I might not have had otherwise. The more I shoot it the more I conceive I'm probably best off pursuing a good AR 15.

But I don't regret having it at all. Its got its uses.
 

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Words Of Jeff Cooper

Words Of jeff Cooper:
"We have received a couple of positive reports about the Chinese 1911 clone known as "Norinco."
Quality control in a slave society can be anything the commissars decide, and, of course, slave labor is a lot cheaper.
If you have a Norinco that works well, be satisfied."


Words Of QKShooter:
So...if you have one and it works well, be satisfied.
I checked out more than a few of them over the years & quality was sporadic and always lacking in looks.
Slide and frame base metal are reported to be good to very good but lacking cosmetic appeal. Slide serrations are usually quite ugly.
Slide To Frame fit ranges from a good, tight, fit to very sloppy.
Trigger pulls are always mushy. The exterior finish & metal prep. before finishing is never good
Internal frame and slide finish is usually rough but passable with some minor deburring necessary.
Functional Reliability is good. The one supplied magazine is usually not ever good. Barrels are 50/50 sometimes quite good ~ sometimes...not so good.
Half the folks that buy them seem to love them to death and about half are sorry that they ever bought one. That never ceases to have me totally stumped. :confused: I still cannot figure that out.
It would seem to me that in using a "rinco" for a build or base gun...by the time you got done changing out the internals...adding an aftermarket barrel & bushing...replacing the plastic stocks with additional new/better sights...and a refinish job....etc. You are already right to the cost of a nice quality used (but not abused) American Made Colt 1911 that will continue to hold value & increase in value.
And a modified "Norc" will have absolutely no practical investment or resale value.
If you wanted to buy one as a Plain Jane shooter then that's OK with me but, logically a "like new" Springfield would hold intrinsic value much better & is not that much more expensive.
 

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As a "tool" gun I could probably live with one. One that is thrown in the back of a pickup truck, a tool box or left in cabin where it might be stolen. Possibly hammer a few nails if the proper tool was nowhere to be found. I cannot, however, treat a gun like a "tool". I would rather have a high quality but old and worn gun than a new cheap one. That applies, with me, to rifles, pistols or BB guns. Same with fishing gear. And tools. High quality is always cheaper in the long run. If I wanted to try a particular gun but could not afford the real thing I would continue wanting one unless there was a high quality knock off. Norinco is fine for AK or SKS type guns. Not ideal, but not bad either. Just my opinion.
 

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Bumper

I could not have said it better than you just did.
I also WANT to appreciate my firearms and my holsters & related equipment as being Fine Examples of their respective, traditional "craft" ~ and I always want to be able to absolutely trust that "serious equipment" ~
You spoke some wise words.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I don't know I'd be so bold to make such a blanket statement. Our own domestic makers seem to turn out some stuff that makes commie guns look like the pinnacle of production sometimes.

But Bumper's probably right that the Kalashinov action is probably the most worthwhile thing that ever came out of China. It was after all designed to be produced cheaply in large numbers with crude techinques and make the best of it.
 

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I've owned a bunch of Norincos of various stripes in my day.

The Tokarevs? Generally OK, especially the early ones that looked to be military guns re-worked.

The 1911s? Ugly, but functional. Back when they weren't asking $450 on average for one, it was a much better gun than the Llamas and the crapshoots in the $200 bin. Now I'd tell someone to get an Armscor in the same budget range. I'm sure Jeff Cooper wouldn't like those either, but well, I rarely agree with the codger.

The M14/M1a? Not bad. I've shot several. Fit and finish was usually rack grade - not substantially below the Springfield entry level models. I'm just not enamored enough with the M14 design to want another one unless it was at the prices quoted. I ended up selling the non-Norinco I purchased a few months back for almost twice what it cost me, so that was good - but the rifle was finicky with ammo and wasn't as fun to shoot as my FALs.

The Makarovs? Functional, not worth the $300-500 that the collectors seem to think they're worth.

The oddballs? You know, the Browning takedown .22 copy, the Walther Olympia TT clone, the Uzi, that sort of thing? Surprisingly good. I bought their Walther copy for the 4H kids and it shoots better than the actual Walther that a local collector brought out for comparison - for a fifth of the price. My Norinco Uzi runs as well as my friend's Model B and shoots better than any 9mm carbine I've ever seen. Clay pidgeons out to 150 are a joke.

On the Norinco guns, I have no guilt about buying a communist product if they're currently already here in the handgun department - there is no such thing as a 'new' one any more. The money's going into the hands of your local gun shop.

On the M1A, I'd almost like to see the cheap ones re-imported to keep Springfield et al on their toes.

I just have never understood how folks shooting 1911s and M14s and their clones seem to have such problems with the guns and still accept them.

I've learned as I got older that if it doesn't work in the first box of shells, off it goes.
 
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