I've covered this before, but I need some advice this round. I attend a private university where guns are banned on campus. Period :banned: . I recently learned that the Chief of University Police can give me a waiver and I could carry my concealed weapon problem free. I want to go talk to him but know I'm going to need an air tight reason. I figured if I got all of your brains together we could come up with something good. I appreciate your help. :argue:
I need your help
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
I think if you show him your CCW, tell him that that you want a waiver because it seems a little funny that you can carry legally everywhere in the state except on campus (the reason for the waiver, is that the University knows that it cannot ban outright because they would face a legal challenge from the NRA therefore the police waiver is there). Speak mater factly and ask if there is a range near campus where his officers qualify and tell him you would be more than willing to demonstrate that you are safe, secure and proficient and that you would take the CCW (on campus) responsibly.
Joined
·
25,481 Posts
You should have all your reasons for wanting to pack already established.
Bottom line would be IMO the simple fact that you hold a valid CCW - you are a proven 'GG' and see little reason to have to relinquish your very basic right of self defence within the campus. Why should you be any greater a risk under those conditions than any others when you are in fact carrying elsewhere.
I doubt you could claim any ''special reasons'' any more than another CCW who might also wish to be given a waiver. Your airtight reason is quite simply a continuance of your right, with zero threat.
Bottom line would be IMO the simple fact that you hold a valid CCW - you are a proven 'GG' and see little reason to have to relinquish your very basic right of self defence within the campus. Why should you be any greater a risk under those conditions than any others when you are in fact carrying elsewhere.
I doubt you could claim any ''special reasons'' any more than another CCW who might also wish to be given a waiver. Your airtight reason is quite simply a continuance of your right, with zero threat.
Joined
·
1,387 Posts
Guys,
Platitudes are nice , but His question is really about how to deal
Rationally with an Authority figure who has the Power to
grant him "privileges" while he lives in an "unfree" Society.
(the College Campus)
It's similar to dealing with Military Life (or Junior High) .
cougartxn- you need to present your "good citizen" resume , and
prepare for a civil debate on the realities of crime on campus.
Do your Homework , and approach it similarly to a job
interview.
Remember , First Impressions are everything , and in a Debate,
it's not about who's right - it's about WINNING!
Platitudes are nice , but His question is really about how to deal
Rationally with an Authority figure who has the Power to
grant him "privileges" while he lives in an "unfree" Society.
(the College Campus)
It's similar to dealing with Military Life (or Junior High) .
cougartxn- you need to present your "good citizen" resume , and
prepare for a civil debate on the realities of crime on campus.
Do your Homework , and approach it similarly to a job
interview.
Remember , First Impressions are everything , and in a Debate,
it's not about who's right - it's about WINNING!
You are also showing that you are a responsible gun owner by comming to him/them, rather than to carry W/O a waiver. Point out to him that if done correctly, he wouldn't have known you were packing anyway!! Perhaps ask him if he'd like to go shooting sometime (and be buds..:banana: ).
Joined
·
3,850 Posts
See what you can find out about the Chief of University Police, since he seems to be the one with the ability to grant a 'waiver'. Ask folks who also work on campus what he's like, and so forth.cougartxn said:
Maybe you'll get a 'heads up' on what to say or not say. At the very least it can't hurt to find out what he's like. All the best to you.
I appreciate all your advice guys. I understand what you mean about my reasons and I have them. I suppose I was just seeing if any of you have had similar situations with work, etc. What you all have said makes sense and I'm off to do some homework. Thanks again.
Joined
·
8,128 Posts
You can explain to him, that you only want to be a law-abiding individual, and only want to go the legal way, and RESPECT HIS AUTHORITY while on campus. Ask for his permission to legally carry within his Juristiction and ask if you may have a waiver in order to legaly carry on campus..See what he has to say, and present yourself as a GG to him.
Joined
·
1,170 Posts
Maybe mention how you know the Police aren't there to serve as personal bodyguards and your personal protection is primarily your responsibility. That being said the if it is a large campus you could mention that the campus police to student ratio could be even less than the ratio of the entire city. Not sure about that one, more reseach is necessary.
It appears to me what he was seeking wasn't "a reason" as much as information and facts from a like-thinking group who have chosen to pool there knowledge on this forum, so he could have a more competent and effective argument to be used to justify his point of view. The point of view being what many of us believe to be our RIGHTS.
I have no doubt that the Chief will say NO. It is not in his best interests to award such a waiver and only opens himself up to professional liability. The Chief would only do it if his boss or bosses ordered him to, which might happen if they believed you had the backing to sue as a test case and then they might give you the waiver and start looking for ways to make it more difficult to get a waiver while avoiding a precedent setting case. I think the Gov't doesn't want guns anywhere and would back the school.
Good Luck and God Bless
I have no doubt that the Chief will say NO. It is not in his best interests to award such a waiver and only opens himself up to professional liability. The Chief would only do it if his boss or bosses ordered him to, which might happen if they believed you had the backing to sue as a test case and then they might give you the waiver and start looking for ways to make it more difficult to get a waiver while avoiding a precedent setting case. I think the Gov't doesn't want guns anywhere and would back the school.
Good Luck and God Bless
Campus Carry Permits
Perhaps you might approach the chief to determine the amount of campus security, the number of officers, hours of security, etc. I would ask about the history of campus crime and the nature of the crimes. This could lead into your concern for a campus carry permit, explaining that you know the police can't be everywhere all the time and while you appreciate their efforts you believe as many,m that responsible gun owners need the availability of self protection. Tell him any other unique reasons you need a permit compared to those who do not. Let him knowyou are a responsible person, etc.
Perhaps you might approach the chief to determine the amount of campus security, the number of officers, hours of security, etc. I would ask about the history of campus crime and the nature of the crimes. This could lead into your concern for a campus carry permit, explaining that you know the police can't be everywhere all the time and while you appreciate their efforts you believe as many,m that responsible gun owners need the availability of self protection. Tell him any other unique reasons you need a permit compared to those who do not. Let him knowyou are a responsible person, etc.
Joined
·
25,366 Posts
Before I approached the Chief, I'd prepare my case, do my homework and address it in a business like manner. There are a lot of good ideas on this above. You ought to know, beforehand:
There are probably more, but you should also focus on your specific need, and then build your case.
It'll be a very tough sale - be prepared, be personable, be businesslike, and above all, do not use emotional arguments. They'll fall on deaf ears. Stress your training, your license, your maturity.
You might consider a "bullet" point presentation that all of us would be glad to help you refine and review if you wanted to post it here. Short and sweet.
Good luck, and study hard!
- Crime levels on campus
- Crime levels in adjoining neighborhoods
- Crime levels where you reside
- The quality of the campus security personnell, training, the coverage at differing times of day
- The quality of campus night lighting
- The predominance of night classes
- The ratio of commuter students versus resident students (e.g. is it a small school in a small "college town" or a big city campus attended predominantly by commuter students at night)
There are probably more, but you should also focus on your specific need, and then build your case.
It'll be a very tough sale - be prepared, be personable, be businesslike, and above all, do not use emotional arguments. They'll fall on deaf ears. Stress your training, your license, your maturity.
You might consider a "bullet" point presentation that all of us would be glad to help you refine and review if you wanted to post it here. Short and sweet.
Good luck, and study hard!
Joined
·
641 Posts
When all else fails, tell the truth.:duh:
Joined
·
1,068 Posts
The problem with "coming up with something" is that it frequently sounds like you "came up with something". And if you start quoting crime statistics, you shift the debate to crime on campus, risk alienating the Chief by implying that he isn't doing his job, and shift the debate away from your natural right to carry in self-defense. I like the KISS principle, myself. Don't volunteer information he isn't asking for. Don't distract from your central point. Tell the truth. Demonstrate that you are a calm, rational, individual who has passed federal, state and local background checks and have been deemed fit to carry a concealed weapon in public. Good luck.cougartxn said:
Joined
·
25,366 Posts
My favorite cartoon quote of all time, from the Wizard of Id, where the King states His version of the "Golden Rule"
He with the Gold, Makes the Rules.
Both my kids, now adults, know that one by heart, as well as,
"When Pigs can Fly....."
Joined
·
3,481 Posts
cougartxn,
Maybe the first thing to do would be to do some background research on the Chief. If he's the kind who says "no" to everybody andis anti-gun, than you risk placing yourself on his radar in a negative way. You might end up on his "first to question if something weird happens on campus" list. Discreetly ask people who know him, try to find out if there are actually people who have gotten waivers, or get to know him yourself if you cross paths once in a while, asking casual questions that poke around the general gun subject. Find out how he feels about guns to get an idea of how he might respond to your inquiry.
There's plenty of reasons to carry, but the hard part is stating reasons that will work on the Chief.
You can go in, stomp your foot down and demand your 2nd Amendment rights be honored, and very well come across as "one of those militia types." It's my opinion you should leave out the "it's my right" type comments. I would suggest you state, as Tom357 said, that you've passed all the federal, state and local background checks to carry in public.
As a couple others said, don't say anything to suggest that the campus police are unable to do their jobs - you'll just offend him. Get it across that you respect his job and the campus police, but state that the ratio of cops/students means the cops just can't be there for everyone, any maybe you've got really late classes and cross dark lawns and lots.
Maybe the first thing to do would be to do some background research on the Chief. If he's the kind who says "no" to everybody andis anti-gun, than you risk placing yourself on his radar in a negative way. You might end up on his "first to question if something weird happens on campus" list. Discreetly ask people who know him, try to find out if there are actually people who have gotten waivers, or get to know him yourself if you cross paths once in a while, asking casual questions that poke around the general gun subject. Find out how he feels about guns to get an idea of how he might respond to your inquiry.
There's plenty of reasons to carry, but the hard part is stating reasons that will work on the Chief.
You can go in, stomp your foot down and demand your 2nd Amendment rights be honored, and very well come across as "one of those militia types." It's my opinion you should leave out the "it's my right" type comments. I would suggest you state, as Tom357 said, that you've passed all the federal, state and local background checks to carry in public.
As a couple others said, don't say anything to suggest that the campus police are unable to do their jobs - you'll just offend him. Get it across that you respect his job and the campus police, but state that the ratio of cops/students means the cops just can't be there for everyone, any maybe you've got really late classes and cross dark lawns and lots.
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Join the discussion
