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I'd be curious to hear opinions on this scenario.

3K views 37 replies 29 participants last post by  BobbyLee 
#1 ·
I work frequently in North Philadelphia. For those of you who don't know N. Philly is one of the worst areas in the US. I am a utility worker (fiber optic splicer) and am alone in these neighborhoods 99% of the time. Usually my day consists of the gang members and drug dealers accusing me of placing cameras on the poles to keep an eye on them, or of disconnecting there services (ie. Power, phone, cable TV) which I don't work for any of those utilities. I do get hassled a lot and have gotten pretty used to it. I really never thought to ask in a defense class what I'm to do if I ever do have to draw my weapon and take a life. Something tells me if I happen to successfully protect my life while taking the life of one of these "gangbangers" those wont be the last shots fired. I'm sure I would be out numbered quickly. And obviously I can't leave the scene. What would you di if this situation presented itself to you? I won't accept "find a new job, don't work in that area etc. This is my profession, I've been doing it for 17 years, and it's just the way it is. Thanks
 
#3 ·
I'm surprised you haven't had to do anything thus far. I think it might be prudent to invest in a lapel cam or something to record any confrontations. After all it's not really the BGs you worry about but the cops and legal system indicting you, just saving your own life in a clear SD situation. If you have proof that you were stopping a real threat it could help you.

I'm not sure I follow you here - "...obviously I can't leave the scene". Have you talked to your manager about how to handle any confrontations in such a high crime area? I'd think he'd tell you to get out of there and maybe come back when things cool off, or even take a partner on the install.
 
#5 ·
As far as manager, I am the owner of the business. I have 4 other employees, only 1 that CC's (I've suggested to the others, and offered to pay for any defense classes they feel would be best to get them comfortable. Anyway I tell my guys to drive through the work zone first to eye up the situation. If they feel there is a potential threat, continue to drive right out. And then we'll usually go back with 5 trucks strobes and beacons going to really maintain a presence. But there are times when all appears quiet and then hell breaks loose. This is the scene I'm more thinking of.
 
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#13 ·
Do you really believe a working man would have a difficult time with the criminal justice system ? More than likely if one had to draw a handgun for self defense, there would be more than one gun present, and it's likely the lone worker would probably die next to his tools used for cable splicing. Gang banger carry guns for a living !! BUT, in the hopes he was able to get back into his van/truck he should get out of there and call police from another, safer location.

Does anyone really believe the police are going to believe a bunch of gang bangers, or better yet, do you really believe a bunch of gang bangers are going to be waiting around to talk to police ? The worker can return to the scene with police and explain how a shooting went down. It is not requisite a shooter remain at a shooting scene if it is not safe to do so. It wouldn't be the first time officers had to go to a scene from a point meeting a compalinant.

This from investigating hundreds of murders and shootings scene.
 
#14 ·
It is not requisite a shooter remain at a shooting scene if it is not safe to do so.
This was my thought too. Getting to safety is the absolute number one priority. In the immediacy that undoubtedly means your vehicle. As soon as possible, call 911. Keep your SA up, remain on the line with the 911 dispatcher and if at any time you sense a threat coming, leave the area and tell the dispatcher what you are doing and why. They should be able to help co-ordinate a location for you to rendezvous with the police.
 
#6 ·
I know nothing about your company policies, your state laws, or any of your local ordinances, but if my personal safety called for me to exit the scene after a shooting, you can bet your sweet bippy I'm beating feet. I can settle up with the law and the lawyers once I'm safe.

And the world extends beyond N. Philly, by the way.
 
#7 ·
You options are pretty clear. You will need to bring more to the fight than the Gangbangers bring. A rifle in the truck is a good Idea. Use the pistol to get back to it. You may or may not encounter more BGs. Generally they do not want to get shot, so if one goes down, maybe two, the fight may be off, however do not count on that.

In the context which you described, I would have a good fighting pistol, with at least 4 extra mags. In the truck I would have a AR with at least 4 mags. You should be able to stop any gang activity with that. As far as tactics are concerned. You will have to seek out some training in urban combat.
 
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#9 ·
Thats true, I might have gotten a little carried away, but he did ask....:wink:
 
#10 ·
And the world extends beyond N. Philly, by the way.[/QUOTE]

Believe me Old Vet N. Philly is not the only area I service. But unfortunately it's one of them. The fiber Optic cable has to get into Center City Phila. some how. It just happens to be the route it takes. I'm trying to expand my business so that I will be fortunate enough to be able to work in a much more desirable place. As rammerjammer said I've been doing it for 17 years. I dont lose sleep over it, just looking to hear what others thought. That's all.
 
#15 ·
I dont know what your carry gun is, but my choice would be at least a G26 with 17 round mags for reloads. And a nice Mossberg Shotty in the truck.
They dont call a shotgun "street sweeper" for nothing.

But, on top of all that, just be nice to them when they come around. Most are ignorant as hell, and if they are convinced that you are not there to mess with them, all the better.
You could say something like " hell no Im not hooking up police cameras, I cant stand the police". Or any creative thing you can think of to put them at ease.

Re direct their attitudes and natural animosity and territorial suspicion.

Be nice, until its time not to be. The biggest factor in avoiding confrontation and attack is understanding thug thinking.
 
#16 ·
I dont know what your carry gun is, but my choice would be at least a G26 with 17 round mags for reloads. And a nice Mossberg Shotty in the truck.
They dont call a shotgun "street sweeper" for nothing.

But, on top of all that, just be nice to them when they come around. Most are ignorant as hell, and if they are convinced that you are not there to mess with them, all the better.
You could say something like " hell no Im not hooking up police cameras, I cant stand the police". Or any creative thing you can think of to put them at ease.

Re direct their attitudes and natural animosity and territorial suspicion.

Be nice, until its time not to be.
My EDC is an S&W m&p 9c 12+1 with 2 xtra mags, and a Benchmade in my weak side pocket. And a S&W 1911- 7+1 holstered to the drivers seat with a spare mag. Also I do the splicing in the back of my van so I keep a Kel-tec strapped back there. I do have my eye on a purrty 10mm Glock that will rotate with the 1911
 
#17 · (Edited)
Your post reminds me of a comment made to me by a heating oil dealer when he went to my son's home near the South edge of Center City; near Christian.

He took one look at me and let out a deep breath. Then he said, "I usually have to tell dispatch to call the cops if they don't hear from me in
10 minutes."

Maybe a similar approach is needed for you. I assume you are in constant communication with your company. Could you use some pre-arranged
word, or time limit, or both @ which they will call the cops.

And, at least it sounds as if you are allowed to be armed. OTOH, it being Philly, you'd probably face charges and a long tough legal slog if you
used your gun.

There is no answer to your problem. Some jobs are just plain dangerous. Hope the pay makes it worthwhile.
 
#20 ·
You have lots of guns. My opinion sell some, keep the keltec. Get a glock 19 or a 27. Whichever caliber matches your keltec. That way all your mags are interchangeable. When they are shooting at you any mag will work in any gun. Also get plus 6 mag extensions for every mag they are cheap, glockstore.com sells them. Keep a high capacity mag in the kel tec to start. That way you can focus on defense not mag matching
 
#23 ·
[humor] That's CA. Everyone is more civilized in the NE. [/sarcasm]
 
#24 ·
There is no earthly reason that if youve had to shoot someone in SD and others start to gather round and get threatening that you would have to stay in danger. If you could you simply get out of there and go back with the cops.

Heck the cops, have been known to split situations like that until they could pull in enough officers.
 
#26 ·
Since your a small business I'm going to assume you work as a contractor to a larger company. Do you know what their policy on guns are? You may very well be violating your contract with them by carrying.
 
#27 ·
No rational thinking human being is going to expect you to stay on scene if doing so puts your life in jeopardy. Remove yourself to a safe location and call 911.
 
#28 ·
Seems to me you are doing great, I bet you have a smooth calming presence that has served you well for 17 years. Should think go bad that same smoothness will again serve you well.

The trash you encounter like easy targets, anyone coming close will see one down and def not want to be the 2nd down!

Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
 
#29 ·
I worked in the communications industry for 23 years.Have been just where you are.A person feels pretty naked up in a bucket or up a pole on hooks.Once you get the fiber prepped and inside the trailer or van it's a bit better for a while.I usually just let on like I did not know what the new fiber was for for sure,maybe to upgrade the system.Maybe more sports.I wish they would put more sports on don't you.Don't lie,but you know that all those fibers can be used for any number of things.Usually,I my my case almost always,they became interested in helping me get my work done.Don't leave your splicer or tools where they can be seen.Lock up your belt every time you pull it off.Don't tempt them to steel.If none of this works,I was always able to hire off duty police to work security for me in a spot or two. Be careful,be sort of quite,be polite,try to laugh with them if you can.Most of the time the fiber guy can get by.Let someone know quickly you are not there to cut service,or do an audit.You should not ever be alone in those kind of places.Edit to add:always have cell phone with other crews on speed dial,don't show the gun unless it is time to use it.
 
#30 ·
No one has mentioned it so I will. Body Armor. It's not just for LEO.
 
#31 ·
I would always work in pairs at least. Glad to see you scope out the area and that you carry regularly. I would have to have a smaller BUG on me too, like ankle holster. Seems like you've handled yourself well for the past 17 years. I'd keep it up. And also ask local authorities what proper protocol would be in that situation. They could tell you the proper way to handle it since they will be the ones doing all of the investigations and what not.
 
#34 ·
I'd be curious to hear opinions on this scenario.

... am alone in these neighborhoods 99% of the time.

Usually my day consists of the gang members and drug dealers accusing me ...

I do get hassled a lot ...

... if I happen to successfully protect my life while taking the life of one of these "gangbangers" those wont be the last shots fired. I'm sure I would be out numbered quickly.
If that's the normal and customary situation you find yourself in, it's hard not to argue for being armed with a fairly reliable, decent-capacity weapon with a fair number of spare magazines. Glock 19, CZ 75, H&K USP or similar, for example. A few decent defensive oriented courses wouldn't hurt, either, to learn how to deal with fast-moving situations if they arise.

If alone and in a situation where you'd be outnumbered, it is entirely possible that sort wouldn't back down easily. Very dangerous. Not a lot of options, other than to be capable of effectively dealing with it. Keep your SA alive and well; listen to the little hairs on the back of your neck; always be aware of decent cover nearby; always have at least one means of communicating on you (the mobile radio; your sell phone). Don't get too far from the truck, if able. Be well aware of the city's crime maps, aware of the recent hot spots.


And obviously I can't leave the scene.
Sure you can, if your life is seriously threatened. Imagine having an attempt at robbery or your life, where you defend against that, but then a half-dozen homeys come out of the sewers to come after you. High-tail it? Absolutely, if you're able. It's simply not equivalent to dropping the situation like a hot potato and skipping. There are just some situations where exiting stage right is the best option. After which, you can dial 911 for the cavalry. Depends on the situation's specifics, of course.
 
#35 ·
I like the body armor suggestion, I two have been working in some lousy areas as of late. Was thinking of some decent body armor for myself. Make sure you have the rounds to fight too. Everyone saying keep the hi caps are correct. A carbine with a holo sight would be best in that situation.
 
#36 ·
I do believe that I would carry a gun and work with an armed helper? I spent several years working at the Navy Aviation Supply Office on Robbins St. in NE Philly. I had one car stolen, one car vandalized and one attempt to break into my apartment in the first year I was their and I lived outside the city in Bensalem. I can honestly say I was glad to leave when my contract was up......
 
#38 ·
I think this is the best recommendation. If you try to match weapons with a gang you are probably going to be out manned and out gunned. I think the cellphone call to 911 and get to a safe location. Remember your vehicle is also a weapon. Don't stop for anything.
 
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