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Security w/ relaxed drug avail.: better/worse?

  • My family would be safer, on the whole, day-to-day.

    Votes: 47 30.9%
  • My family would find greater threats, on a daily basis.

    Votes: 56 36.8%
  • It would be little different from today.

    Votes: 49 32.2%

  • Total voters
    152
  • Poll closed .
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Discussion Starter #1
Some suggest the Obama Administration is all too likely to relax the Federal Government's stranglehold on drug availability and drug use in the USA.

Yesterday, someone mentioned that there is a renewed effort in Mexico to legalize drugs. In the past week, Mexico legalized small quantities of some drugs, for personal and "recreational" use: click.

The drug wars along Mexico's borders are churning right along, as witnessed by yesterday's execution of 17 in Ciudad Juarez, right across the river from El Paso: click.

Some suggest if only drugs were legalized, there would be nothing to fight about: click.

Others believe such folks are out of their minds, that while we'd regain some liberties we would lose what's left of our souls.

QUESTION: From the standpoint of personal security and threats to your family members in the town where you live, how do you see such a change affecting things, on a day-to-day basis? What if "minor" drug availability were as simple as a bottle of Pepsi cola at the corner store?
 

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This is a good thing to think about. I guess they wouldn't have as much to fight about. But there will probably always be amarket for cheaper taxless goods. I dunno what the difference would be honestly.
 

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I think on a person-to-person, individual level, it wouldn't make a big difference in most of our lives if "minor" drugs such as pot were treated like alcohol. On a macro level, it would accomplish certain things (at certain costs), but that's beyond the scope of the post.
 

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I dont know... Trash fights about anything. You know what they fight about most? ( that they call the police about anyway) is video games and their systems and cell phones. Its always the same.

Both are legal products, but they do have value. And they fight over them. Keeping drugs illegal keeps the trash left in its wake hidden and at least somewhat under control.
 

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Where is the "You've got to be kidding me" voting option?:frown:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Where is the "You've got to be kidding me" voting option?:frown:
I figure that it's well understood to be in there, in the "greater threat" choice.

Reality is, we're self-selecting the bias, here, a bit. The knee-jerk response is what's going to come out, and I suppose there is little question about how the chips will fall. With greater thought, and with a better understanding of the economics of such a sweeping change, the numbers would change a little.

Still: it is what it is. Change is in the wind. Hope is in the air. A new day is coming. I just don't think I want to see some of what that day will bring ... and that's a fact. :tired:

On a macro level, it would accomplish certain things (at certain costs), but that's beyond the scope of the post.
In so far as it impacts a person's perceived daily security threat, it's well within the scope.

But, you're correct in suggesting there are plenty of effects outside someone's day-to-day concerns that aren't at issue, here. Beyond the scope of the question.
 

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So what's to stop these people from mixing their drugs? The popular thing nowadays is to smoke "wet" (marijuana laced with PCP or dipped in embalming fluid). Those people can get quite out of control.
 

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I tend to agree with you. First let me say I do not use the stuff.

Prohibition was abolished because the Government could not stop the sale of alcohol, and citizens did not want prohibition.

Same today, the only way to stop the “drug cartels” is to legalize cannabis and cocaine, tax it, regulate it to produce produced in this country and sell it like you would hard liquor, but only regulate how much one can buy at a time.

Sure there will be some society health issues, but it’s obvious some citizens in the country want to use recreational drugs, and are willing to go to jail to do so, a government of the people and for the people should legalize it.
 

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So how do you think all these new addicts are going to pay for their legal drugs,you think they are going to take their stoned bodies to work,very unlikely,they are going to be looking for easier ways to supply their habit IOW they will be doing more car and home burglaries.
 

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Which ever side you take, I think we all have to be willing to accept that there is some gray in this area and base whatever policy on common sense and pragmatism.

Ending prohibition definitely took down a major boon for criminals like Capone (if not the IRS) but you will still have instances where people abuse something, like Alcohol, and that's just a fact of human nature that we sometimes will not know when to say "No." I'm not sure there's a single way you can legislate to prevent that.

Hypothetically if you did legalize everything, even the really hard stuff (I couldn't see proposing such a thing) you would most certainly take a big chunk out of the cartel's business. I think most likely what they would do is just take the money they have and go to some 'legitimate' business. Basically you would take cartel crooks and make them become corporate crooks. A bit more sinister but less actual violence.

I think it would be much more satisfying to just hunt down and kill the Cartels. But the scale of that manhunt would be very difficult if it occured in America because of our civil liberties, which I would see being threatened...and this opens up a big can o'worms (and possibly a whole separate thread of discussion) on what we are willing to suspend in civil liberties to combat a massive threat. Natural disasters gets us martial law at times, would a cartel war do the same in America?
 

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I don't think it would change anything, except to make it easier for people to start using drugs who don't already.

Where I grew up getting dope WAS/IS as easy as getting a Pepsi, or Dr. Pepper since I am in Texas.
 

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I tend to agree with you. First let me say I do not use the stuff.

Prohibition was abolished because the Government could not stop the sale of alcohol, and citizens did not want prohibition.

Same today, the only way to stop the “drug cartels” is to legalize cannabis and cocaine, tax it, regulate it to produce produced in this country and sell it like you would hard liquor, but only regulate how much one can buy at a time.

Sure there will be some society health issues, but it’s obvious some citizens in the country want to use recreational drugs, and are willing to go to jail to do so, a government of the people and for the people should legalize it.
Sure, that's easy to say since you don't deal with the crack heads and tweakers on a daily basis on your job or see the results of the addiction to these drugs. Alcohol isn't comparable to crack and meth.

Deal with this crap on a regular basis on YOUR job and see if you still think it's a good idea.
 

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Nothing to fight about? You don't think the cartels would want to compete with the government? Just how would all these legal drugs be marketed, at the local pharmacy? Then pharmacies would be knocked over as often as stop-n-robs.
As one poster pointed out, you can't get addicts to work now, when they are just using enough to get by on, just imagine if they could buy all they wanted without fear of arrest. Robbery, car theft and any other crime where you could turn a quick profit would soar as addicts try to stockpile drugs. It's a can of worms.
 

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Law enforcement and health agencies now spend countless dollars and man-power dealing with the effects of illegal drug use. Incarceration and treatment are expensive. Reduce the penalties and you may reduce the le burden. Health costs would continue to grow.

Distribution would be controlled and taxed on a state/federal/local level. Like bootlegging, independent producers would compete with regulators, not unlike what goes on now.

Costs are artificially high and would likely drop if access was less restrictive. Though drugs will always be a high-value product.

There would be less blood in the trade. The best ever argument to discourage drug use.
 

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Nothing to fight about? You don't think the cartels would want to compete with the government? Just how would all these legal drugs be marketed, at the local pharmacy? Then pharmacies would be knocked over as often as stop-n-robs.
As one poster pointed out, you can't get addicts to work now, when they are just using enough to get by on, just imagine if they could buy all they wanted without fear of arrest. Robbery, car theft and any other crime where you could turn a quick profit would soar as addicts try to stockpile drugs. It's a can of worms.
Exactly.

Fact: Addicts need more and more quantities of the drug to get that same high. And they will be forever trying to capture that first high.

And they will DO ANYTHING to get that high. And that means steal, maim, rob, and even kill. Can't even get these pot heads, crack heads, and tweakers to even work, much less be a productive member of society.

Much of gang related violence is due to the drug trade. The way the gangs look at it, they need something to make money off of, so they will offer the drugs at an even lower price. With illicit drugs legal, more people will be addicted. Why would these addicts pay more money for a highly taxed product when they can get it from their crack/meth drug dealer? They want more drugs for their buck.

We need more people addicted and robbing and stealing and murdering like we need a hole in the head. Those who compare this with alcohol are totally ignorant about the situation. We already have a problem with people driving while intoxicated on the roads, lets add even more high/drug addicted drivers to the mix. It should be even safer on the roads. :rolleyes:

While we're at it, let's start selling the stuff at Wally World too, that way it's much more available to the common man. That would be a great idea. :rolleyes:
 

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Exactly.

Fact: Addicts need more and more quantities of the drug to get that same high. And they will be forever trying to capture that first high.

And they will DO ANYTHING to get that high. And that means steal, maim, rob, and even kill. Can't even get these pot heads, crack heads, and tweakers to even work, much less be a productive member of society.
1.) There will always be addicts, and addicts will always behave in a crazy fashion - legalizing drugs won't change that and I can agree with that.

However you're implying that legalizing drugs will increase the number of addicts, that's not necessarily the case. Just because cocaine gets legalized doesn't mean people by the millions are going to go out and start doing it, become addicted and ruin their lives. I will never smoke pot or do cocaine no matter how legal or normal it becomes.


Much of gang related violence is due to the drug trade. The way the gangs look at it, they need something to make money off of, so they will offer the drugs at an even lower price. With illicit drugs legal, more people will be addicted. Why would these addicts pay more money for a highly taxed product when they can get it from their crack/meth drug dealer? They want more drugs for their buck.

We need more people addicted and robbing and stealing and murdering like we need a hole in the head. Those who compare this with alcohol are totally ignorant about the situation. We already have a problem with people driving while intoxicated on the roads, lets add even more high/drug addicted drivers to the mix. It should be even safer on the roads. :rolleyes:
Gangs will not be able to compete with companies that can use economics to produce and distribute drugs. If anything drugs will cost less than they do now.

Furthermore any violent activity perpetuated by addicts due to the legalization of drugs pales in comparison to the amount of violence that goes in between cartels, gangs, drug wars, etc that will stop once drugs are legalized.

Finally the country spends a balls ton of money on jailing people for possesion, fighting a war on drugs, etc. The benefits in reduction of violence and spending are far greater than the the health/addict consequences of legalizing drugs.
 

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We need to try something different --lots of somethings different--because what we are doing doesn't work very well and costs us a fortune in LE costs, legal/trial costs, jail -housing costs, rehab. costs. Our present approach piles cost upon cost upon cost with not a whole lot of real control to show for the effort.

There is no magic answer, but certainly decriminalizing possession of prescription drugs and decriminalizing possession of modest quantities of pot would be a start. It could be tried for 10 years, and see what happens.

As for the more dangerous stuff in the form of PCP and similar, in fact for most of these things, punish bad behavior instead of mere possession.

The only other approach that might work would be to institute very severe punishment, death penalty, as in some of the SE Asian countries. But then, that hasn't stopped their problem, has it?
 

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I think if it was legalized then you would see even more criminals and dopeheads out on the prowl. They're everywhere now, but just imagine how many there would be out roaming the streets in the broad daylight flaunting it.

I for one would rather not subject my children to legalized dope peddling. This would only bring out more criminal activity.. One could even say that the viloence may decrease, but I truly doubt that to.

Violent activity would infact increase, being that the drugs and drug money were readily availabe at you local stop and rob friendly gonja store..

How manay have been to countries where the selling of narcotics are legal? Well I can tell you that the majority of the people loitering around the drug supplier stores are not the most pleasing people to encounter. They only want one thing, drugs and they dont care what actions they have to take inorder to finance their habbit..
 

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I tend to agree with you. First let me say I do not use the stuff.

Prohibition was abolished because the Government could not stop the sale of alcohol, and citizens did not want prohibition.

Same today, the only way to stop the “drug cartels” is to legalize cannabis and cocaine, tax it, regulate it to produce produced in this country and sell it like you would hard liquor, but only regulate how much one can buy at a time.

Sure there will be some society health issues, but it’s obvious some citizens in the country want to use recreational drugs, and are willing to go to jail to do so, a government of the people and for the people should legalize it.
Yep, even today's there's still a minor amount of booze and tobacco smuggling going on, but it is very isolated and rare and doesn't affect the average person.

I think same would happen with drugs. It would be far easier to buy them at the store than to deal with shady characters on street corners.

You wouldn't have to rob houses and pawn stuff for your next high, you could just beg a few dollars on a street corner along side the local alcohol addict. Dopers are lazy, they're not going to rob houses and risk getting blown away if some other path is easier.
 

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I'll preface my remarks by saying that I do enjoy a drink or two with dinner, and a beer before dinner.

That being said, I have a problem with the legalization of other recreational drugs.

We already have enough problems with alcohol. Why add to these problems?

I'm from that baby boomer hippie generation. Every single one of my friends and acquaintances who experimented with drugs have dropped off the edge of the earth. They are not on the Internet. They are gone. Disappeared. One of them had a masters degree and a promising career. He took LSD a few times, cleaned out his and his wife's joint account of $33,000 (in 1969) and disappeared. Forever. Gone. No exceptions. I don't know where any of them are. You can bet that the ones that can be traced are the old jerks with the vacant looks who voted for Obama.

Now, the illicit drug industry is probably bigger than the defense industry.

Designer drugs with more and more weird effects are hitting the market. Take a look at cultures around the world where non-alcoholic recreational drugs are tolerated. In most of those cultures, people don't even bother to get up out of their own excrement (an exaggeration, but not by much.)

So, I think that the war on drugs should continue. Longer sentences with clean but non-recreational prisons built in the Canadian arctic would be a good idea. Out of sight, out of mind. And no escape with -45 temps in the winter and mosquitos big enough for landing lights in the summer.
 
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