[Bm7b5]

I've seen a lot of videos of street fights in which one person is knocked down and then gets either kicked severely or stomped in the head--sometimes fatally. In all of the cases I've seen, the victim allows his/her head or body to be exposed to the attacker without even trying to keep feet between him/her and the attacker.

If you are knocked down and you attacker is coming at you, try not to expose your head to your attacker. Keep your feet between you and kick hard at his legs when he tries to advance. Don't do like the victim in this video.

Cop Saves Man From Beating and Stabbing - NothingToxic.com

 

[Guardian]

You know, I've travelled and trained with a lot of folks in various MA/SD Schools in different cities on different bases throughout my time and trained and been trained and I still find it amazing that a lot of instructors do not train their students in this one simple tactic until you can regain your feet or take your opponent out from the ground (knees/ankles) my favorite targets.:wink:

Thanks for the reminder. It's always good to have reminders.

 

[Hopyard]

FWIW, we practice ground fighting. I practice kicking one foot toward the attacker while using the other to help "steer." I practice bucking someone off.
I practice guarding my face and deflecting blows and then bucking them off.

The one thing I really can not do properly, due to age, is get myself up from the ground. I (and everyone really) need to make sure that isn't where we wind up.

Ground is one place where I can really see using a knife; if the attacker is trying to get on top for a choke.

I think one reason we do this in my lessons is that my instructor has a wrestling background, and fight MMA.

 

[Templar71]

Good point made. If you can keep your wits about you and are able to get to or hang onto your knife you will essentially have a multi-directional attack option.

As previously stated knees are a prime target for kicks. For knife attack at the legs you have quads, patellar tendon, popliteal artery (posterior knee), downward stabs to the top of the feet and achilles tendon.

Obviously get back to your feet quickly as possible.

 

[surefire7]

In our TKD classes, we practice ground kicks just like we practice regular kicking. :hand10:
Just pivot around with the attacker and if they bend to hit or grab, front kick or side kick in the face, neck, groin-whatever is your best target.:hand5:

 

[BeachBum]

One thing bothers me about that video; cop seemed to have no concern whatsoever for the health of the victim.

 

[psychophipps]

The same goes the other way around. Try really hard not to get the feet of your assailant between you and them. I advise over and/or behind their head if you can manage it so they have maximum time to find, fix, and begin to move against you.
Prof. Al Dacascos lost a family member due to this. The assailant attacked his family member and had been knocked down in the scuffle. The attacker then saw he was outmatched and drew a firearm from his waistband as he held Prof. Dacascos' relation off while he began firing to fatal effect.

 

[mercop]

The fall itself is most peoples undoing. That is why we train to fall, fight off the ground, or fight on the ground and continue.- George

 

[cass8171]

In my class we were trained for hours in defense from the ground. Both laying on the back and laying in the fetal position. We also practiced firing from the hip while protecting our heads from an assault such as a baseball bat. All three were a good starting point for further exploration. If you have never fired a handgun laying on your back or in the fetal position..well..lets just say it is enlightening.

 

[Eagleks]

a good kick and taking out their knee, will put them on the ground with you.

 

[JerryM]

Sounds good, but not sure one can always do it. Sometimes one is knocked down by a blow that causes temporary unconscientiousness.

I guess such is good in a very small percentage of cases, but mostly I look on much of this training as a game that might be fun to play for some.

I wonder if there has ever been a case of a CHL holder who needed this particular training? But I concede that, like the martial arts, it is fun for some.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[Hopyard]

re: Jerry M

Sounds good, but not sure one can always do it. Sometimes one is knocked down by a blow that causes temporary unconscientiousness.

I guess such is good in a very small percentage of cases, but mostly I look on much of this training as a game that might be fun to play for some.

Regards,
Jerry

I agree with the concept you have here. A guy my age doing a fall "induced or assisted" by a BG opponent is going to break something; either a wrist, hip, or something on the face/skull.

While it is great fun to practice ground fighting, I assume that I would be done for if I were ever actually knocked down by a much younger BG. This is stuff for the under 50 crowd, I'm afraid.

Best to hope for would be a small opportunity to use a gun or a knife--else they'll finish you off if that is their intent.

 

[Bm7b5]

I assume that I would be done for if I were ever actually knocked down by a much younger BG.

If that is one's mindset, it will likely be true.

 

[DistantHorizon]

One thing bothers me about that video; cop seemed to have no concern whatsoever for the health of the victim.

Yeah, he doesn't know who's who or what the situation is, but he doesn't seem to be in too much of a hurry to check the guy out. But what bothers me is that it appears the cop barely draws in time!

 

[Hopyard]

Fighting through

If that is one's mindset, it will likely be true.

A person can fight through perhaps with a broken wrist. They might be able to fight through with a broken nose. A fractured hip is end game. A fractured vertebrae pinching the spinal cord is end game, and a fractured skull is likely end game.

No amount of positive thinking and attitude is going to change the pathology and physiological consequences. It doesn't happen in the treatment of grave diseases such as cancer (notwithstanding many claims) and it isn't going to happen on the street.

In my case, better to work on staying upright. In fact, all should work on staying upright and putting the BG on the ground first.

There's a limit to what can be accomplished with "positive thoughts."
And I'm not talking about self-fulfilling prophesy. I'm talking about the reality of old bones.

 

[LethalStang]

The fall itself is most peoples undoing. That is why we train to fall, fight off the ground, or fight on the ground and continue.- George

Exactly. Most fights end up on the ground and this is where most people are unskilled.

 

[Bm7b5]

There's a limit to what can be accomplished with "positive thoughts."
And I'm not talking about self-fulfilling prophesy. I'm talking about the reality of old bones.

I wouldn't classify the power of mindset as Stuart Smalley type positive thinking, but yeah, there are things mindset can't overcome. But then again, people have survived things through sheer determination to survive that nobody believed possible.

 

[Bunny]

FWIW, we practice ground fighting. I practice kicking one foot toward the attacker while using the other to help "steer." I practice bucking someone off.
I practice guarding my face and deflecting blows and then bucking them off.

This is exactly what's in the syllabus of our women's SD classes, Hopyard. And for good reason.

 

[Hopyard]

Bunny, good for you and +1 for your SD instructor

This is exactly what's in the syllabus of our women's SD classes, Hopyard. And for good reason.

Bunny, good for you and +1 for your SD instructor.

I hope no one misinterpreted my comment about my need as an older person to avoid a fall or being thrown, and everyone's need to learn some ground fighting because that is where it is likely to end up.

There is a reason our law enhances the penalty for assault on senior citizens. And, disparity of force issues shift in my favor toward use of lethal force because as I stated, old bones are old bones, and force that would not be lethal to a 20 year old would almost certainly be lethal to someone perhaps a few years older than myself. There is a very high percentage of folks who die within the first year of breaking a hip.

 

[JerryM]

When I was 60 I hunted big game in the mountains, and was able to quarter and carry downed game to camp on a packboard if I did not have any help.
But at 64 I had bypass surgery, and 4 years later learned that I have three blocked arteries that cannot be cleared.

Now with subequent health problems and a little arthritis in my hip I absolutely cannot fight except for a matter of seconds. I go to the gym 3 days per week, and look in better shape than my inner body really is.

So you young folks who think it is all a mindset, and that everyone needs karate or other type hand to hand fighting skills, have a lot to learn about the elderly. Don't worry, you will learn it all too soon.

Comments such as the reply to Hopyard
"If that is one's mindset, it will likely be true." indicate that one has no clue as to the inability of the elderly to defend ourselves against young and stronger attackers, and the liklihood of serious injury just by falling.
We're not entirely helpless, but to take courses that are about hand to hand combat, knife fighting, and such things is not a good option for many of us.

I do think that a mindset that says "I will probably get shot or hurt, and I am going to keep fighting until I die or pass out." is useful. I have read of some people getting shot by a small gun and not in a critical area, and just passing out. I do not assume I am not going to be able to carry through on what I get involved in, and intend to carry on until I am dead.

Regards,
Jerry