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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok so - I am a pessimist. :wink:

I do not consider that should (heaven forbid) I am forced to defend self, that I am somehow invulnerable to incoming - far from it - this is the ''it CAN happen to me'' thinking.

It does I confess take up part of my thought process regarding a shooting scenario. I am not sure how I would handle it, tho adrenaline would hopefully keep me in action unless something real bad is hit.

We often talk about our training and probable actions but me being me - I have a distinct reluctance to assume I am somehow untouchable. Sure if con' yellow and our skills succeed we get off shots first but - cannot assume that.

We cannot know of course most of us but - it is as said, something I ponder.

Ok I know - I think too much!! :rolleyes: :icon16:
 

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in my experiance the kind of mental toughness ( or " thesticular fortitute ) to prevail after an injury is impossible to train into anyone. You really never know untill it happens , i do note tho that the folks who have taken rounds or been otherwise hurt and prevailed in fights ( i wont limit this to a firefight ) have mentaly "gamed " this possibility in thier " tactical daydreams " oO( come on we all do it , daydream about confrontations and how we will react ) i guess what i am trying to say is folks that " game " being hurt and think it thro , still prevailing in thier scenerios have a better chance in RL confrontations , just as someone who goes into a fistfight expecting to get hit and deal with it will do better than the guy suddenly punched in the nose , as you said p95 food for thought
 

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No one can foresee what can, or will happen WTSHTF. Even if your someone who's been there before. Anyone who believes otherwise is quite foolish.
All we can do is practice, learn, keep our guard up, and our head on our shoulders. Hopefully this will tilt the scales in our favor. If not at least your not some poor S.O.B. or :sheep: who went down without a fight. If that means anything to you, I know it does to me.

That's just my take,...What do I really know.
 

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Chris,

The answer to your question, "How will I react?" may well lie in your past.

When just "shooting the breeze" on various subjects, I've been told that I have no way of knowing how I would react under various conditions. I simply don't buy that.

Have you never been "eyeball-to-eyebal with the Universal One-ness" before? I know my short-lived motorcycle days certainly put me in that postion more than once. (And other questionable thought processes later on put me there a few more times.)

What I learned was, I do NOT panic. I've no idea why, I just don't. Never been caught with that "deer in the headlights" look on my face. Of course, that doesn't count the occasional random encounter with a drop-dead georges Female. . .

Not going into a "panic-mode" has kept me alive. When an 8 inch gun turret suffered a projectile exploding in the barrel on the ship in my Icon while off the coast of North Vietnam, the entire below decks was filled with a caustic, toxic gas. I was asleep in my bunk, right next to that turret. Not going into a panic probably made the difference between going home in a box, or seeing the sun come up.

You can pretty much predict how you will react in the future by how you've reacted in the past.

The other thing I have fully learned to depend upon is that when all else goes out the window in the fog of confusion , you will react however you have been trained to.

So, look back. I'll bet that there's something in your past that will shed some light (and hope) for your future.

mm
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Mike - yep - probably right you are. I have had two severe experiences I can think back on and fortunately I did not panic. Tho I do recall the extremes of ''wobbly knees'' as a result, after!!! I am still here anyways.

I guess tho even this does not totally confer comfort, tho sure - it is a pointer! Always I guess some self doubt.
 

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Yeah panic factor. I didn't think too hard bout that one.

Good point.

Tho I do recall the extremes of ''wobbly knees'' as a result
Maybe Adrenaline dump? It gives me an evil sounding laughter, that I cant control.
 

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Good thoughts, Chris. It's nice that we have you, just sittin' around, thinkin' this stuff up for us to ponder....
:haha:

I've never been shot(and hope the trend continues), though I have been punched, kicked, choked and stabbed. So far, I've avoided panic and been able to fight through the discomfort/pain. I don't know if martial arts training helped, but I don't imagine it hurt. IME actual sparring would got me used to pain and such, so as to be ready for "the real thing", should it arise. Granted, being shot is different than being punched, but pain is similar, and learning how your body reacts to changing chemical levels in response to pain is a good thing.
Of course, the idea is to not get shot, right?:banana:
 

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Well guys, let me be the one to say, "Been there, done that."
I was hit twice while in Vietnam and shot once in Los Angeles about 5 years later while working security.

Special Forces training is very useful during these times. It was so ingrained into us not to quit, ever. Consequently I never have.

Both times in S.E.A. I knew I'd been hit but it was academic to the situations we were in. I took about a half-second each time and said "S#!t!!! then got back into the fight.

In the LA situation I had no idea I had even been hit for about 20 minutes, and he hit me with a .38SPL 158gr JHP.

I was prone at the time or in the process of getting that way when he fired. The round went into my upper right thigh, passing through some .380 Super Vel rounds I had loose in my pocket before entering my leg. It broke up into several pieces and stopped before my kneecap.

After the police showed up (5 min later) we were searching for the area that his bullet had to have hit with no luck when I felt a cold draft under my duty holster. When I moved the holster aside I found a 2" diameter wet spot and a hole in my pantleg. I then said (and I'll never forget the moment) "AW S#!t!!, I found the bullet!!"
 

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I was taught, never stop , never give up. A good reason to practice prone , kneeling or weak hand shots,as well as 1 hand reloads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Bob - had not realized you had taken rounds.

That 38 and the delay before realization is remarkable. I have heard similar said before - and I guess sometimes a combination of adrenaline/endorphins can and does mask things initially.

Fascinating.
 

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I've had in-depth discussions with two men who have "been there and done that." One was a combat veteran and the other a "reformed" ex-con, both scarred from various battles and have killed in self-defense (not sure about the ex-con, but I don't really want to know).

I'm good friends with the vet, and watching his face go from the gentle man I know to a hard stare when he talks about "if it should happen again" is rather chilling. War-face is scary.

The ex-con shielded himself with a nasty attitude that screamed "stay away." It was almost a show. Like angry dogs kept in pens, they need to bare their teeth often to assure they don't get eaten up by the others.

With both of these men, there was no doubt in my mind that they would go straight into battlemode and deal with the problem effectively.

I've never had anything life-threatening happen to me involving weapons. The only life-threatening events have been auto related. I was almost in a head-on collision and avoided it well, and the shakes didn't kick in until miles down the road when I started focusing on the crazy person who could've killed me.

It's been a long time since I've been in a fist-fight, and I really can't count those as "experience", but I do distinctly remember fighting back with everything I had, even when my glasses were punched off. I did not want to go down. I've had the wind punched out of me in the stomach. I was buckled over and helpless on the ground for quite a while. That's a feeling I won't ever forget and will do my best to never end up there again.

Having no actual combat experience, I can only hope that my training, constant discussion over "what would you do" scenarios, and my will to survive will take over.
 

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Most military veterans and current service people don't realize how valuable Boot Camp was and is because guarantee if you are hit during fist fight or if you take a round, you will revert to training and it will be amazing how much stuff you recall when needed. It's almost like something just clicks on up there. I am a nice guy but I am aware that this lies deep inside due to my expierences. Well, anyway, no one really, really, knows your reaction, but military training does help.
 

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yes, training does really help. I Have LE training , and was assaulted 1 evening in a parking lot. Came up ready to do battle without even considering it. Training gets ya to react, instead of having to think it thru first.
 

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Interesting discussion, I guess you really can't know how you will react until it happens but as some of you have said, I think mindset and training are critical.

This is an area where I think empty-hand training can help. Not in the sense that you're going to get shot and then go "Kung-fu" on the guy:duh: . But the mindset development that's possible. What I mean is that if you are accustomed to high intensity training (boxing, MMA, grappling, etc.), you are used to getting hit or getting "hurt" and being able to brush it off and press on. Eventually you develop the mentality that "If I get hit, it may hurt but it's not going to stop me."
Obviously you don't have to study empty-hand fighting to develop this type of outlook but I think it definately helps to have experienced a small dose of the pain and adreneline you may encounter in a real SD situation. (of course, I believe that empty-hand training is an essential part of the SD toolbox anyway)
 

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In his book on interactive gunfighting (training with airsoft guns) Gabe Suarez suggests that training partners, when taking turns playing bad guy/good guy, have the good guy keep fighting no matter how many times he's hit, while the bad guy eventually goes down after receiving some predetermined number/placement of hits. This was to train not to ever give up, but guard against, "I gotcha", "No you didn't", "Yes I did" etc.
 

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In my younger days of scrapping and sprts I have had several fairly "serious" injuries. Broken bones and torn ligaments. I did not notice the pain immediately and the situation was not life threatening. Based on that I believe (but not tempted to find out for sure) that I am capable of carrying on until completely incapacitated. I stick with that belief in the event that time comes and it turns out that what really matters is what you believe you are capable of. (power of positive thinking and all that)
 

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An interesting discussion. I've been shot, shot at and survived numerous life threatening situations over the years, but never at the same time! I was shot at in the military and as a teen (a neighbor thought I was a burglar once and fired at me with a shotgun... he missed). I was accidentally shot in the leg by a cousin who was cleaning a rife that was "unloaded" when I was 12. It was in the meaty part of my leg, on the inner thigh a few inches above the knee. BTW, it HURT! I can't remember the times I was a heartbeat away from seeing the white light at the end of the tunnel while flying for 20 years with the navy and I won't even include the accidents I've been in (broke my neck in the last one back in '94, that's why I retired from the navy) and the just plain dumb things I've done. I sometimes surprise myself I've lived as long as I have!

What I've learned about myself is I don't panic. Maybe it's the navy training or just having "been there and done that" more times than I can count anymore. Still, the question I try to remind myself of is this... what about those things I haven't experienced? I've never been robbed at gunpoint or caught in the middle of a gunfight. I suppose I’ll keep my head, but until it happens, I'll never know for sure. I DO know getting shot hurts and that if fired on, I will fire back. Beyond that, I can only guess.
 

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I'm in the 'don't know until you're there' camp. Truthfully, I hope to never find out. I managed to crack my ribs from collarbone to sternum while riding a dirtbike when I was young, in the middle of nowhere, by myself. Saying 'it hurt' really doesn't do it justice. I made it home, but I'm not entirely sure how. That's what counts, really, just make it home.
 

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In my experience (not being shot), I felt the pressure of the blows I took, but did not feel the pain until after it was over. Being hit did not prevent me from staying focused on defending myself. When I broke my leg, this fall, I was in a situation where I could not stop what I was doing. I knew instantly that the leg was broken and that I could put no weight on it, but I felt no pain. I was able to hand off and solve the situation, and did not start to hurt until I was enroute to the hospital. This has made me imagine that if I were hit, it would not prevent me from defending myself unless it were a critical hit, that I would not lose focus on the problem at hand. I could be wrong, of course - shock can be tricksy - but I imagine, at least, that I would feel the pressure of the hit and be able to continue if I was able to continue at all, and wait to hurt until later.
 

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I have not been hit from a bullet but have been badly cut and beaten at different times. The two times I was cut it was not apparent how bad till much later, in one situation it was not till several days later that my tendon onto of my thumb was cut in two. Even the hospital doctor missed it.

Can you prepare for this? Yes and no, it depends on your mind set not your training in and of itself. Will it work for everyone? No, at least in my mind, if you do not have the resilience to continue the fight in the wake of overwhelming odds or simply this is not in your demeanor then it is not going to happen.
 
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