If you were asked by a school for recomendations for...

Deaf Smith · 2023-05-16

I would recommend either.. Kel-Tec 2000 mk II or S&W FPC. Just add optic and a high speed round that fragments in walls (less over penetration.) I base this on the fact most teachers will not get into a rigorous practice regime and thus a small very light rifle with low recoil and good power. 9mm from 16 inch barrels reaches 1500 fps... i.e. .357 magnum. What do you guys think they should be armed with?

OldVet

· #21 · 24 d ago (Edited)

Erich1B said:
I am in favor of arming teachers…
Just as long as they’re hot!

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ThatMontanaGuy

· #22 · 24 d ago

I don’t think there is a “one size fits all” answer. Firstly it should be up to the individual teacher to decide for themselves whether they even want to be armed. Second of all, if they do choose to arm themselves, they should choose their own weapon based on what they’re comfortable with. Third, I wouldn’t recommend any type of carbine. Why choose a weapon that is likely to be similar to what the threat is carrying? Greatly increases the chance of misidentification by first responders IMO. And if I were to suggest a carbine, it sure as hell wouldn’t be a sub2000! I would almost rather face a threat unarmed than have one of those garbage rods, at least then I’d have my hands free. 🤦🏼‍♂️

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edr9x23super

· #23 · 23 d ago

i don’t care what they carry, I care more about what they can do with what they carry. Of course there will be all kinds of ideas about training/qualifications, etc.. and I’m not gonna bother with that.

Prior to this school year beginning, I was invited to a meeting a few of my sons’ high school officials (teachers, admin) held about evaluating the schools’ current level of preparedness for something like a school shooter. Law enforcement was there as well, and overall there were good ideas shared regarding security and response. My one suggestion I made was to train some school officials to a sufficient level to be armed, then post visible signage around the school perimeter informing the world of this and anyone with unlawful intentions would be dealt with accordingly.

This suggestion led to a lot of back and forth debate and eventually it was agreed that they would get together with county law enforcement about some training for staff. They tossed the idea about the signage, which I understand. I thought overall it was a good exchange of ideas that resulted in some action being taken. As it happened, a few of the dads decided they wanted to have an informal shoot around at a small private range nearby that weekend. I got an invite and showed up, there were a couple of sheriffs deputies who were there as well and a whole plethora of weaponry was there to display. It was really the first time I have gotten out and met some folks here where I live So it was nice. The deputies had set up some simple scenarios and they walked everyone through them and then we started shooting. i had a good time, and definitely turned a bunch of heads when I got up and the timer went beep. I had to explain to the folks there that I had spent most of my adult life learning how to shoot under the pressure of time, which is very different than the casual target shot down range. There were numerous comments about me “having a custom $3000 1911” and being able to post such performances. For the record, the Ronin I used I picked up for $750, and the only thing I had done to the gun internally was the trigger set at 3.5lbs.

The bottom line, I said was practice, practice, practice, then do lots of dry firing. I told them I could have done the same within hundredths of a second (really too close to call) with my Glock G45, my G34 or my Champion. I said if you train to a point where you can hit what you’re aiming at at speed, under the pressure of time then you have a chance If it’s for real.

So, to reiterate - get something comfortable then practice like there’s no tomorrow. A wise man once said “Never assume that simply having a gun makes you a marksman. You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar”………. Jeff Cooper.

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demanic

· #24 · 23 d ago

Snub44 said:
I'd suggest a full-sized Kahr 9mm. Compact and simple...just stroke the trigger. Nothing to fumble with or make a mistake with.

For that same reasoning, I would go with a Ruger SP-101 DAO with a 2 1/4" barrel. My wife loves hers because there isn't a lot to fumble around with. Draw, point and squeeze. Even out of a short barrel, five rounds of .357 should prove useful.

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S

Snub44

· #25 · 23 d ago

I carried a pair of those for a couple years or so...one as a backup for a couple more years...I love that gun but my brother and a nephew love 'em now. What round does she carry?

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A

AnthonyC

· #26 · 23 d ago

Maybe this:

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riverrambler

· #27 · 23 d ago

AnthonyC said:
Maybe this:

Nope

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jmf552

· #28 · 23 d ago

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Mike1956

· #29 · 23 d ago

jmf552 said:
My recommendation would be that they don't arm teachers. Teaching is an entirely different orientation and skill set than being an armed defender. And arming teachers would produce a false sense of security. There are more important things to be done to keep schools safe. First, the physical hardness of school buildings needs to be improved, big time. Second, there should be a very well trained cadre of RSO's who will really do the job when the time comes. Finally, we need LE to do a much better job of tracking potential threats.

That argument could be presented for prohibiting the exercise of Second Amendment rights everywhere. What makes teachers uniquely unqualified to bear arms? Anyone who carries anywhere suffers from that same false sense of security.

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Bad Bob

· #30 · 23 d ago

I think you would be better off allowing those that would carry to carry a 9mm semi, that they would carry and hire an armed security professional while instituting an access control plan. Then ensure that armed staff can qualify at the standard of law enforcement with their chosen carry gun.

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Bad Bob

· #31 · 23 d ago

bc22wm said:
The same mandatory training, qualification, re-qualification that our state law enforcement officer are required to undergo. Then we can discuss guns. JMHO I would rather see a teacher armed with a Ruger MKII that they are comfortable with and can hit with than making them conform to my standards of what I think they should use. (yes, I know .22lr Bla, Bla-Bla,) It is not like they are invading the Asian land mass, or "clearing the bld." They should be hunkered down with whatever students they can get a hold of and defending that bit of ground. Let the professionals clear the building and go into harm's way. Lastly, I don't think any teacher should be required to be armed.

I disagree on the 22 LR sentiment. I would rather they be a willing participant and carry a real defensive pistol. If all they can handle is a big, heavy 22 LR , there are better candidates.

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5lima30ret

· #32 · 23 d ago

ShooterGranny said:
"Kept under lock and key" --- and most probably will remain that way no matter how long a terrorist keeps shooting teachers and kids. Unless: There is one in a locked cabinet in every single classroom, with the key around the teacher's neck. And one in the auditorium -- And one in the gym - but who would have the key?

---That is how I see it. 👵

This is essentially what happened with the "Naval Security Force" at Pensacola NAS a few years ago during an active shooter incident. Naval Security personnel had the unloaded guns but the ammo was kept locked up in the armory. 😬 Escambia County Deputies came on to the base and shot & killed the shooter.

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Mike1956

· #33 · 23 d ago

Bad Bob said:
I think you would be better off allowing those that would carry to carry a 9mm semi, that they would carry and hire an armed security professional while instituting an access control plan. Then ensure that armed staff can qualify at the standard of law enforcement with their chosen carry gun.

Armed school staff in Ohio have to score higher in order to pass the Ohio Police Officer Training Academy qualification than LEO do. I scored 100% on that one with a .45 Shield when I went through the FASTER Program.

FASTER Saves Lives – Practical Violence Response Training

fastersaveslives.org

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Mike1956

· #34 · 23 d ago

If I were to recommend one single gun to a school board that was bent on dictating what their staff should carry, it would be a Performance Center Shield Plus with a 4" barrel. It checks all the boxes--slim enough for easy concealment, reliable, light recoil, great trigger and ergonomics, plenty of capacity and as accurate at distance as its larger, double-stacked counterparts. If I were an armed staffer, it would be my carry choice.

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Mike1956

· #35 · 23 d ago

5lima30ret said:
This is essentially what happened with the "Naval Security Force" at Pensacola NAS a few years ago during an active shooter incident. Naval Security personnel had the unloaded guns but the ammo was kept locked up in the armory. 😬 Escambia County Deputies came on to the base and shot & killed the shooter.

How many times in the army was I required to stand guard duty with a rifle and (ostensibly) no ammunition?

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Bad Bob

· #36 · 23 d ago

Mike1956 said:
If I were to recommend one single gun to a school board that was bent on dictating what their staff should carry, it would be a Performance Center Shield Plus with a 4" barrel. It checks all the boxes--slim enough for easy concealment, reliable, light recoil, great trigger and ergonomics, plenty of capacity and as accurate at distance as its larger, double-stacked counterparts. If I were an armed staffer, it would be my carry choice.

I would have said that last year too. Now, the Sig 365 beats the Shield for me.

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Bad Bob

· #37 · 23 d ago

Mike1956 said:
How many times in the army was I required to stand guard duty with a rifle and (ostensibly) no ammunition?

At least as an MP I had my 1911 loaded with 5 rounds........

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Mike1956

· #38 · 23 d ago

Bad Bob said:
I would have said that last year too. Now, the Sig 365 beats the Shield for me.

Hard to argue one way or the other:

Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield Plus 4" vs Sig Sauer P365 XL size comparison | Handgun Hero

Compare the dimensions and specs of Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield Plus 4" and Sig Sauer P365 XL

www.handgunhero.com

I'm guessing your bit mitt likes that bore axis on the 365...

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Bad Bob

· #39 · 23 d ago

Mike1956 said:
Hard to argue one way or the other:

Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield Plus 4" vs Sig Sauer P365 XL size comparison | Handgun Hero

Compare the dimensions and specs of Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield Plus 4" and Sig Sauer P365 XL

www.handgunhero.com

What seals it for me is that I can go from a comped 15 shot wonder 9 to a 10 shot micro in 2 minutes with the same gun.

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jmf552

· #40 · 23 d ago

Mike1956 said:
That argument could be presented for prohibiting the exercise of Second Amendment rights everywhere. What makes teachers uniquely unqualified to bear arms? Anyone who carries anywhere suffers from that same false sense of security.

That's a straw man argument. Teachers are as qualified as anyone else to bear arms on their own time. But as a job, that is not what they signed up for or the school signed them up for. If they had wanted to be cops or security guards, they would have followed those careers. And what if a school doesn't get any teachers, or enough teachers to sign up? Then the school would have to find a Plan B to something that should not have even been a Plan A. And I was not talking about the individual teachers' false sense of security, I was talking about the school and the public's false sense of security. I think arming teachers will cause schools to overlook much better solutions.

"The gun community" (whatever that is) wanting armed teachers is at best "a hammer seeing the problem as a nail," and at worst an attempt to politicize the problem of child safety for the sake of gun rights. And as a gun rights activist, I do not say that lightly.

If you were asked by a school for recomendations for arming teachers...

Deaf Smith

OldVet

ThatMontanaGuy

edr9x23super

demanic

Snub44

AnthonyC

riverrambler

jmf552

Mike1956

Bad Bob

Bad Bob

5lima30ret

Mike1956

FASTER Saves Lives – Practical Violence Response Training

Mike1956

Mike1956

Bad Bob

Bad Bob

Mike1956

Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield Plus 4" vs Sig Sauer P365 XL size comparison | Handgun Hero

Bad Bob

Smith & Wesson M&P 9 Shield Plus 4" vs Sig Sauer P365 XL size comparison | Handgun Hero

jmf552

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